Cavs/Spurs Trade

[CavsGM]

Andre Stocker
Lutz Gerstl
Quincy Mihm

for

Emmanuel Griffin
Michael Borowski

[SpursGM-old]

Andre Stocker
Lutz Gerstl
Quincy Mihm

for

Emmanuel Griffin
Michael Borowski

Spurs agree...and cut Isaac McCracken (also posted in drop forum)

[CavsGM]

I really like this trade. Gerstl and Mihm are talented players but they hardly played for me this season. Switching from Stocker to Griffin may seem to me a small upgrade but it helps in a lot of key areas. FT shooting, by far my team's biggest weakness, greatly improves. Griffin is also a better shot-blocker and turns the ball over less. The only problem is his D potential, and he's also two years older, but I think he'll really help my team win some more games now.

[SpursGM-old]

I'm happy with my side of the deal also.  Stocker gives me a better rebounder (one of my weaknesses up front) and is two years younger.  And since I already have an inside offensive player Stocker will be used as a non-option which should lessen his turnovers.

Also Gerstl gives me the backup SF that I have desparately needed all season.  And if he doesn't work out then he is another expiring salary....

[CelticsGM]

i won't even talk about Gerstl or Mihm, but there is a reason they didn't get any minutes on the Cavs. Just Stocker ...

sorry to say it this way: Stocker is a truly horrible player. Sure, he is a good rebounder. But that about summarizes his value.

He can score only under perfect conditions, and more likely will give you 10ppg.
He's the worst freethrow shooter in the league. By a landslide. 38% and dropping. This will hurt you when he's a focal part of your offense.
He doesn't block shots. Under a block a game as fulltime regular starter at PF or C.
His defense should be ok, but nothing special (there's a reason a guy like Jeff Robertson shot 11-15 and 15-17 against Andre in sim4)

and the worst part:
He's playing on a near max contract, on your books for 5 more seasons. Ouch.

He may be younger, but he's about half of Griffin's value, and you will find out soon
Sorry doug, i fear you not only didn't improve your team but made it worse ...

[MavsGM]

Shot blocking is not as important as steal per game.  Also I never seen a player's FG% is higher than FT% before.

[CelticsGM]

For a big man it's about equal, and Andre is big, I mean Sweets big ...

oh, and did i forget to mention Andre gets 0.9 steals and 2.3 TOs per game ?
Sorry then ...

[NetsGM]

I'm not sure what Celtics is smoking.

Sure, he's not a #1 option.  But then again, Griffin's never been either.  Griffin's a career 16 ppg scorer in 30 minutes on 44.5% shooting, Stocker 14.3 on 45.8%.  Both of them are #3 options normally, Griffin might be a #2 on a bad team.

Yeah, Griffin gets 1.5 bpg, which is about .7 more than Stocker.  But stocker gets .4 more steals than Griffin.

And rebounding isn't even close.

Really, if it wasn't for FT%, I think it would be Stocker in a landslide.  A truly horrible player?  Hah.

[CelticsGM]

let's see ...

[CelticsGM]

and NO WAY is he worth his contract, who will eat about 40% of the Spurs cap in 4 season alone. And he's still not expiring then ...
 

[NetsGM]

didn't say he was worth his contract.  don't believe I ever did.  But I also don't think he's a truly horrible player.

But in an age where contracts can be bought out, his contract isn't that big of a deal.

[CavsGM]

Stocker produced but I think it was for the best to trade him. Griffin should only improve my team.

[SpursGM-old]

and NO WAY is he worth his contract, who will eat about 40% of the Spurs cap in 4 season alone.

Tom. this is really funny from a GM who will pay almost $40 mil to just TWO players in 4 years.  And both of them will be 39 year old.  At least Stocker will only be 32 at that time.  And the key isn't the soft cap but the hard cap which I always look at BEFORE completing any deal.


IMHO I will get about the same overall production from Stocker as I did from Griffin....a little more in some areas, a little less in others.  Stocker will be a non-option in my offense...I had two decent shotblockers (2.3 & 2.0 avg) but it didn't make a significant difference in my defense.  However I was missing a strong rebounder who can consistantly get double digit rebounds.

Gertsl will get about the same level of playing time on my squad as he did on the Cavs.  He is my BACKUP small forward.  And if he re-signs for his approx $3-4 mil salary during the offseason then have I a solid backup that was a former #3 pick with a decent career FG% and A- defense.

Mihm was filler and will spend his time picking splinters out of his ....

I have a starting lineup that is 29, 29, 23, 25 & 29 years old.  Two are under contract for 3 years and the other 3 for 5 years.  Mostly I am looking at making any championship run over the next 3 years.  Therefore it is highly likely that in 5 years one or two of those players may not be on my team.

[CelticsGM]

Doug, i won't be paying anyone 40 mio in even 2 years, unfortunately both will be retired by then (i've never seen any of them pull a Dampier/Mutombo in any league)


but i can't see how you can put Griff and Stocker on the same level.

Stocker rebounds better (he'll probably get you 12-13rpg at the low % you are shooting as a team)
Griffin is the better scorer at a higher %, both from the field and the line, doesn't shoot any threepointers, gets you close to a block more and 2 turnovers less. Plus he's an underrated passer out of the post which Stocker is not.

If you ask me that's 1 advantage for Stocker and 6 for Griffin. Give Andre a small plus for the 2 years he's younger ... and a big minus for the contract.

Also, as a team you were better defensively than the Cavs, something I see differently now.
:-/

[SpursGM-old]

Tom...more players stick around until they are 38/39 than you think.  Especially ones under long term contracts.  Hope your plans don't backfire.....   

As far as Griffin shooting a better % from the floor...well not according to the respective stats.  Stocker  45.8% career and 45.1% this season.  Griffin 44.5% career and 44.7% this season.  It looks like Stocker is the better shooter from the field.   Assists are basically even...both this year & for their careers...so I don't understand how you can say Griffin is the better passer.  And the difference in blocks (0.5) over their careers is minimal.  IMO basically I gave up FT% and TO to get better rebounding.  And as a non-option I don't expect Stocker to take many FTs and his TO should go down.