Our Draft vs. NBA Draft

[NetsGM]

Andrew Bogut (20), 7'0, 242 lbs, A- C- C+ B A- A
Charlie Villanueva (20), 6'11, 230lbs, B- B- B B- B A
Marvin Williams (19), 6'9, 230, C B+ B B B A
Gerald Green (18 ), 6'8, 200, B- A- B B C+ A
Deron Williams (21), 6'3, 210, C+ B B B C+ C

Phew.  Thank god I didn't decide to do handmade drafts and put you in charge of creating the draft files.  There'd be 3 superstars on every team by the time you're done with it.

[RaptorsGM]

That's what happens in most leagues

Bogut is going to be great, but not a fantastic defender.

Villa, with those stats would put up like 12ppg, 10rpg, 5apg which I think is pretty close to what he would do in the NBA. His defense is bad too.

Williams is not going to score very much, or do anything that great, but he has potential.

I don't think Green would score 25ppg with B- A- stats. Petit is B A and he is only good for 25 on a team that lacks scoring. Mobley is a B- A- player who averages 12.5 on 44%. I would expect Green to get 15-18 next year, but he has the potential to be a great scorer.

As for Deron Williams, well, Nets, if you were going to make a point about how good I made these cats, why not use Paul as your example

Fact is, if Araujo is going to be a 30/15 guy, Bogut should be too

[NetsGM]

he is only good for 25 on a team that lacks scoring

Erm...I'm 6th in the league in fg%.  Pace is low, that doesn't mean I can't score.

As for Deron Williams, well, Nets, if you were going to make a point about how good I made these cats, why not use Paul as your example

Because I forgot to copy and paste Paul.  

Yes, all the players you "made" have "flaws", but they all have A potential!!!!!

You just made 5 of the probable top 10 players in the league with that draft file.

And some of your non-main-category cats, let's take a look.  And these are all with no improvement from their A potential.  None at all.

Bogut: C+ handles.  There are only 3 C's in the entire league with C+ handles, none of them with a B or better scoring in either of the 2 scoring cats.  There is only one C in the league with the combination of A- or better inside scoring, C- or better outside scoring and A- or better rebounding (Yao).

Villy: B handles.  No PF's in the league with B handles.  Heck, there's only 1 SF in the league with B handles (Benjamin Piatkowski).

Gerald Green: C+ Rebounding.  No SG's in the league with C+ Rebounding.

Deron: No PG in the league with C+ Rebounding.

That's an amazing number of "tops for their positions" you have going there, and that's with Zero improvement in future years.  Not to mention their superior "main" categories.

We've got a bunch of KG's here.

[CelticsGM]

...
Williams is not going to score very much, or do anything that great, but he has potential.
...

So if that really is your opinion, where do these ratings then come from (which point to a potential superstar already) ?

Marvin Williams (19), 6'9, 230, C B+ B B B A

Isn't the classification "not doing anything great but has potential" a typical "C" rating with "A" potential ?

[RaptorsGM]

Everyone was rated high, but I guess my feelings are that more people should have higher ratings in our League.


Anyway, everyone is missing my point. My point is that the players entering the NBA Draft are SO MUCH BETTER than the players entering our drafts.

[NetsGM]

No, we see your point, but your argument is only as strong as the ratings you make up of the people you're comparing it to.  If your ratings are flawed, your argument loses credibility.

So you think the entire league is rated too low, on average?  Frankly, that doesn't matter.  Because a player's effectiveness is all relative.  So you should be making your "real nba player" ratings relative to the league we're in, not to your definition of what an A- inside scoring should indicate.

These last two drafts IMO (as I've said before), blow.  But I'm using that in relation to the players already in our league.  This, IMO, isn't an argument.  But an exercise to have fun.

[SpursGM-old]

Everyone was rated high, but I guess my feelings are that more people should have higher ratings in our League.


Anyway, everyone is missing my point. My point is that the players entering the NBA Draft are SO MUCH BETTER than the players entering our drafts.

But the only reason you feel that way is because you gave the NBA players such extremely high ratings.  

IMO the NBA draft & the SSBA draft are very similar.  The only sure bet is that Bogut is better than anyone listed on the SSBA draft.  But after the first pick the drafts are very close....the only difference being the position that is deep.

[RaptorsGM]

Well, why don't you pick out some specific ratings that are unjustified?

Bogut's handles should be what, a C?

Villa's handles a B- (he ran the break alot at UConn)?

Greald Green's rebounding a C (he's 6'8)?

Deron's rebounding a C or C-?

[NetsGM]

Well, why don't you pick out some specific ratings that are unjustified?

Erm...I did.

So you're telling me Bogut is the best passing big man in the game, Villa the best ballhandling pf in the game, Green the best rebounding SG in the league and deron the best rebounding pg in the league?

You're telling me Bogut is in an offensive/rebounding class held by only one player in this league (Yao)?

And even with those high acclaims already, they all have max room to improve?

Like I said, if these men were really in an SSBA draft file, they'd all eventually be among the top 10 players in the league.

[CelticsGM]

I completely agree with NetsGM. THIS is the best reason NOT do do "manual" draft lists as we all have tendencies to mix up potential and actual (current) skills and thus regularly overvalue guys

And how many guys who "ran the break alot at UConn" (or anywhere) failed to even make NBA rosters ? College shows and promotes superstars, but these are COLLEGE SUPERSTARS. Sometimes those potential superstars get good NBA players, sometimes not.

But NO WAY are/were they NBA superstars immediately, not LeBron, not Amare, not Wade, not even MJ.

[RaptorsGM]

Well, why don't you pick out some specific ratings that are unjustified?

Erm...I did.

So you're telling me Bogut is the best passing big man in the game, Villa the best ballhandling pf in the game, Green the best rebounding SG in the league and deron the best rebounding pg in the league?

You're telling me Bogut is in an offensive/rebounding class held by only one player in this league (Yao)?

And even with those high acclaims already, they all have max room to improve?

Like I said, if these men were really in an SSBA draft file, they'd all eventually be among the top 10 players in the league.

And is that such a bad thing. When KG, Duncan, Shaq, all the stars of today retire, who is going to take their place? Nobody. The way things are going, we're going to have 29 teams that go 41-41 by scoring 80ppg and giving up 80ppg. There are no stars left. Petit is going to average 50ppg. Nick English is going to get 20 pts and 15 assists. There's no one coming to back them up.

The guys I had would have the potential to be amazing, yes. But the guys in our real draft have the potential to be only decent. And they are not even close to being there yet.

[NetsGM]

When KG, Duncan, Shaq, all the stars of today retire, who is going to take their place? Nobody.

YOU DON'T REPLACE THEM IN 1 DRAFT!

KG, Duncan and Shaq all came in different years.  Garnett '95.  Shaq in '92.  Duncan in '97.  That's a 5 year period.

So far we have Pettit, Mercer, Ferry and English.  Boykins has potential.

If these drafts continue for the next decade, I agree, it's a problem.  If we try to replace 5 of these superstars every year, we'll have a bigger problem.

[SixersGM]

Who's going to replace Michael Stewart aka "the enigma"?!

[RaptorsGM]

When KG, Duncan, Shaq, all the stars of today retire, who is going to take their place? Nobody.

YOU DON'T REPLACE THEM IN 1 DRAFT!

KG, Duncan and Shaq all came in different years.  Garnett '95.  Shaq in '92.  Duncan in '97.  That's a 5 year period.

So far we have Pettit, Mercer, Ferry and English.  Boykins has potential.

If these drafts continue for the next decade, I agree, it's a problem.  If we try to replace 5 of these superstars every year, we'll have a bigger problem.

Understandable. Petit, Mercer, yes. Ferry? Maybe. D potential, and has already started to decline. English is decent. But if Boykins is the best you can do, then there is going to be problems.

So far we've seen, what, 4 drafts? And we've had 1 great player, a handful of very good players, and a bunch of average-below average ones.

[NetsGM]

Erm...2 drafts.  2006 and 2007.

And I think English will be great.

And Boykins can be an offensive juggernaut.  B C offensively with an A potential is incredible.  If that improves to an A- C+, there isn't a big man in this league with those skills (only AI, Odom and McGrady have those kind of offensive ratings).