SSBA

Hey guys,
I just figured out why the HOF links were broken, and I've fixed it.  So now Yao Ming and his 30.2 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 3.0 bpg, 2 championship and 25 (!) player of the month awards and 9 (!!!!) consecutive MVP awards will be immortalized.

We should have a Hall Of Shame as well.


For guys like Tom Chambers for example.

I was thinking it might be cool to have a "Top 10 SSBAers" discussion.

well, there are 3 obvious:
Yao
KG
Pettit

I'd say Emeka and Mehta probably deserve to be in there as well.

Dirk is pretty clear too, imo, with leading different teams to championships

Others I'd think about are: Dwight; Marion; T-Mac; Ben Gordon; Boykins; Milner

Yeah.  Dirk definitely.  forgot about him.

Dwight probably.  He never won anything, but neither did KG. 

when we start getting into the PG's, it's hard, because there were so many of them.

Yeah, Mehta hasn't won anything either, but all of those guys are great.
With PGs, guys like Lord and Boykins were great players on championship teams. Then you have stats guys like Milner and Livingston (all time assist leader).

I'd probably start out at:

1. Yao Ming
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Kevin Garnett
4. ...

More then 50 % guys in real HOF won nothing as well. Or some of those in 50 greatest NBA players of all time as well.

this isn't a debate over who should be in the SSBA hall of fame (The CPU decides that, which currently sits at only Yao).  This is the top 10 SSBA'ers of all time.

Even so, championships should definitely be a positive factor. If Jordan didn't win anything then we probably wouldn't consider him the best player ever (which admittedly is arguable, but you get my point.)

i agree.

please let's not copy the mistake of FBB who sometimes awards POTW honors to a player who's team just went 1-4. team success is a big part of winning, and should be a measuring stick for individual greatness too.

Yeah, that's why I think you could say that Dirk is the best of all time because he was more of a winner than Yao, especially when you consider that Yao won his championships in years that could be considered "down" years for the SSBA talent-wise.

Barton O'Connell... the Houston Years

you have to throw Emeka in there as well

after 14 seasons...one hall of famer  :D

Ditto to that. Two guys who propelled the Nets' dynasty run. :D

STATS+WINS=HOF

Can't belive no one mentioned Tim Duncan yet. That guy was a total beast.

So was Hoffa.

Well most of the great ones were already into their careers when the league started, so its not hard to believe. With the way FBB assigns Hall of Fame points, longevity is just as important as statistical greatness. I assume you may see more from this point on, as people play out 15yr careers and what-have-you.

Yeah.  Once some of these great guys (who were drafted into the league) retire, you'll see more.  The greats when the league started (KG, Dirk, TD, etc) just didn't play long enough for FBB to recognize them.

Who, how were these first players created?

Btw, can we agree that no player who ever played on the KINGS (or Celtics for that matter) during the prime of his career can be considered HOF worthy ? Since team success should factor in, that'll be the elimination criteria ...

:-)

Idkn, but i believe some players deserve HOF. I think FBB is too strict on that, just one example (from DJSL tough), LeBron didnt make it, he never won a ring, but he scored 29.000 points, and won many awards except he didnt win the ring. He is 1st on all time list in scoring, so i really dont understand FBB. 29.000 career points scored is not enough for HOF ?? Thats stupid IMO. Only few players in real life went over 30.000 (MJ, Karl, Wilt, Kareem and ?). I guess if some guy named XY average 15.7ppg 7.2rpg and 4.9apg during his career and made some 17.543 points, 6543 rebounds etc. but he was member of a team that won 2 rings will get in HOF instead of guys who played 15 seasons, scored 28.000 pts, 8000 rbs but won nothing except few POTW, POTM, All-League 1st, etc. awards.

lol, once again, FBB doesn't DECIDE who's HOF-worthy, but rather awards points for certain achievements. During a player's career these points are summed up and upon retirement he needs 25.000 of those points to go to the HOF.

If you're interested, look what you get HOF-points for (and it's absolutely ok to crack a smile here):

1250 ... 3-Point Shootout Champion
1250 ... Slam-Dunk Contest Champion
1000 ... Most Valuable Player
1000 ... Defensive Player of the Year
1000 ... Rookie of the Year
750 ... All-Star Game MVP
500 ... All-Star Game Participant
500 ... All-Star Rookie Game Participant
500 ... Rookie Game MVP
500 ... All-League First Team
500 ... All-Defensive Team
500 ... All-Rookie Team
500 ... Sixth Man of the Year
500 ... Champion
500 ... Playoff MVP
250 ... All-League Second Team
250 ... All-Defensive Second Team
250 ... All-Rookie Second Team
250 ... 3-Point Shootout Participant
250 ... Slam-Dunk Contest Participant
125 ... All-League Third Team
100 ... Player of the month
100 ... Rookie of the month
10 ... Player of the week
0 ... Player of the game

 :cheers:

correct me if i'm wrong, but the original league file SSBA started with should have HOF points for veterans already.
at least, when you start a new league in FBB with the default league file - and the 2003 season - these are the top 20 players when it comes to HOF points:

CareerPoints ... Name, Age - Experience
42670 ... Karl Malone, 40 - 18 yrs
27128 ... Scottie Pippen, 38 - 16 yrs
26563 ... Gary Payton, 35 - 13 yrs
25915 ... Mark Jackson, 38 - 18 yrs
25733 ... Reggie Miller, 38 - 16 yrs
25206 ... Shaquille O'Neal, 31 - 11 yrs
22592 ... Horace Grant, 38 - 16 yrs
21509 ... Dikembe Mutombo, 37 - 13 yrs
21001 ... Vlade Divac, 35 - 14 yrs
19041 ... Shawn Kemp{Retired}, 33 - 14 yrs
17766 ... Clifford Robinson, 36 - 14 yrs
17707 ... Jason Kidd, 30 - 10 yrs
17488 ... Kevin Garnett, 27 - 8 yrs
17102 ... Chris Webber, 30 - 10 yrs
16772 ... Glen Rice{Retired}, 36 - 14 yrs
16443 ... Anthony Mason{Retired}, 36 - 13 yrs
15688 ... Derrick Coleman, 36 - 13 yrs
15071 ... Kenny Anderson, 33 - 14 yrs
15018 ... Alonzo Mourning{Retired}, 33 - 11 yrs
14810 ... Avery Johnson, 38 - 18 yrs

so the top 6 are HOF worthy already ...
 :hail:

that scoring's ridiculous.  Particularly the highlighted all-star weekend winners.  Dunk champ gets more than league or playoff MVP.  Absurd.

What? Tracy Mcgrady is probably a top 2 SG (top 3 if you consider Marion a SG) of all time. 4 times WCF's, 3 times one game short of the Finals. I haven't won a title with him, but he's definitely a top HOF candidate, at least for NBA standards. Same can be said for Hoffa who was at his prime while he was on my team.

@ Ivan
but aren't the Kings a synonym for failure? that should be taken into account, such (supposedly) great players not being able lift Sacto at least into the SSBA finals ..

@ Bods
It's completely ridiculous. It took me a few seasons to assemble that list, identify all these pointly "gratifications", but unfortunately that's what it is. Probably a heavyreign joke ...

Assembling a quick Top 10 list, I would pick:
Yao Ming
Garrett Petit
Emeka Okafor
Shawn Marion
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwight Howard
Richard Milner
Tim Duncan
Ben Gordon
Kevin Garnett

Here's a true champion I throw in there, Antonio Daniels, I think Bods and Jazz both had him for winning stretches, winning followed that guy despite his mediocre ratings.  I don't think he's top 10 material but definitely a winner.  Unlike KG and Dwight on my list.  Most of us probably don't remember Antonio but I know I do.

Ben Gordon doesn't belong on that list. I don't know how can you have him in front of Ben Wallace, Mcgrady, Kirilenko, Elton Brand or Hoffa.

the more I think about it, a top 5 isn't hard and top 15 probably wouldn't be but after those initial guys, it's tough to hold out a few guys, Hoffa, Baron Davis (such a vital part to the early Raptors teams), Lincoln Lord, Shaun Livingston (he probably deserves to be in the top 10), Corey Maggette was a big part of the Clippers success, Andre Kirilenko back in the Jazz days.  Bailey Tobey will end up being on this list, Sam Dalembert could have been the best shot blocking big man, Rex Mehta has been good (all with one team too), Barton O'Connell.  The list can go on and on, it's hard to separate some of these guys.

I think Ben Gordon was a very big part of the Clippers success, I forgot about Brand, but the Gordon was the stud alongside Brand for the Clippers.  It was the western version of Emeka and Petit, Gordon at least belongs top 15.  Ben Wallace isn't worthy, he never played offense, McGrady is top 15 imo also.

Chris Mihm!!

Haha...do you remember our neverending bickering about Mihm for Brad Miller swap?

It was like;

-Hi. You're intersted in Miller for Mihm swap?
-I'm interested in Mcgrady
-Um..ok, but he's not available. How about Miller for Mihm
-I can add Vince Carter.
- Add to what?
- Mihm + Vince for Mcgrady + Miller
- Nah, Mcgrady is untouchable.
- Ok, how about Mcgrady for Vince straight up?

And so on... :lol:

In the last 7 seasons Mehta's been All SSBA 1st Team 6 times and 2nd Team 1 time.  He's been defensive player of the year 3 times and All Star Game MVP twice. 

The fact that he hasn't won anything can be attributed more to me than him :D

I agree

Trade him before it's too late, Rex is long overdue for a ring ...
;-)

and everyone know here that this can´t be done in beantown :lol:
well a dwight and rex combo would be insane  :mrgreen:

sorry, i don't have Dwight, so you mean Tyler/Rex of course.

I'll see if this team can do anything before I rebuild and send Rex on his way.

Also, I don't think there can be any argument that Rex is the best shot blocker in league history, considering he owns the season average record and has led the league or tied for the lead the last 7 seasons.

meh.  I'm not sure about "can't be any argument".  That Emeka guy wasn't bad.

First for the season average record, Emeka had 4.7 per game one year, but only played in 31 games because it was the year I robbed him of half the year during the breakup.  He also tied Mehta's 4.4 per game the very next year.

As for the 7 seasons, I'm pretty sure he had a similar run between 2010 and 2017. 

Despite playing until he was 37, he maintained a 3.5 blocks per game average (which is only .2 off Mehta's 3.7 per game average, who's 33 and showing signs of decline).

Emeka Okafor (http://files.ssbabasketball.com/files/2021/End/players/player611.htm)

This actually kinda shows how bad the Hall of Fame is in FBB.  Emeka Okafor, despite career averages of 18.8 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 3.5 blocks per game, 2.9 assists per game, and 1.1 steals per game.  Despite 4 Championships, 8 all-star game appearances, 3 playoff MVP's, an all-star game MVP, 7 all-defensive teams, 3 all-defensive second teams, and 11 all-league teams.

That's ridiculous.  He never won a regular season MVP (never had the offensive stats), and he got screwed.

Is there any way to edit in HOFers? We could have a league-wide vote on inductions, etc.

Well, not within FBB.  I.e. there's no button to click to induct into the Hall that would put them on this page:
http://rosters.ssbabasketball.com/hof/all.htm

I could make a new page myself, though.  Would everyone be up for that?  It would have to be a near unanimous agreement though.  maybe something like 20 vote minimum?

Yeah, I think it would be cool! (or at least as cool as simulated internet basketball can get)

this is actually easier than I thought.  I made a mockup of the page, with both Yao and Emeka:
http://forums.ssbabasketball.com/ssba_pages/hof.php

It could also be cool because we could add more information to the front page (i.e. we could add championships to that table, etc).

Nice, I wasn't expecting it to have stats and everything. So you can get player pages for pretty much anyone?

Well, hopefully.  I'd need to grab it from past season archives (which is what I did for Emeka).

Hinson was averaging 5 through half of last year.  There's a reason teams play 82 games, not 31, and a reason why there's a minimum number of games to play to qualify for season averages :D 

In the last 7 years, Mehta's blocks per game have been 4.4, 4.4, 4.1, 3.8, 3.4, 4.3, 4.2.  I don't see a decline. 

I think the only person you could argue against Mehta with would be Okafor.