SSBA

I got school starting in two weeks, And I run my own FBB League. I had a good time and hopefully improved this knicks team for the future.

Nice knowing you.  I think you're the first GM resign other just quit.  Good luck with school and your league.

yeah, as i remember thats true. Good luck man.

um...wtf?

Did school just sneak up on you? 

Can i take over the Knicks? :P

Actually Yes. When your in the summer, Who think's about it?

ivan wants larry bird?  :D

Larry and Magic. Sounds like a nice way to start a team. :)

Kings aren't getting jack considering he hasn't posted a depth chart in over 6 sims.  He's lucky he still has his team.

6  :shock:
no wonder he only had 20 wins

did you ever check his roster? It is a wonder that he has so many just ask blazersgm  :lmao:

Yeah, that seems to bother your for a quite long time.

If this were next year and you posted 1 dc all year long, you wouldn't have your team.  What you did this year was a disgrace, and something the rulebook will be changing to accomodate.

Well, posting DCs doesn't get you any more or less wins, as you continue to play with the last posted DC.

Just look at the Knicks who posted every DC save for the last one ... 17 wins
And look at the Pacers who posted their lastDC for sim 7 (and didn't even put in a new one when Artest went down for the season around sim10) ... they continued their winning ways.

Only problem is when bods needs to go CPU RECOMMENDED, but in Ivans case that probably got him more victories than any self-inflicted DC would have done. (and going cpu rec is the best way of NOT getting into tanking consideration, right ... ?)
8)

Um..all of a sudden it's a big deal now? I was never much of a DC guy even when i had a winning team. I clearly remember not posting for 4 or 5 DC's in a row just beacuse i was winning so i didn't want to change anything.

And what exacly was i supposed to achieve with my DC this year? The worst team in the league, no young talents to explore, nothing. Why does it matter?

Or should i just be a hypocrit and not admit that i wanted to lose as many games as possible so i could have a better shot at Magic?

Exactly.

I could have posted the dumbest settings and rotations in the history of the league and probably lose a few games more. I guess everything would be ok then?

Nope.  We've got two people already marked down as tanking this year.  And now we've got completely revamped rules because of it. 

Abandoning your team absolutely DOES cost you games, especially when injuries happen, and when teams make trades and don't have valid roster settings. 

Bods point....every move (trades, cuts, signings, DC) made by the Kings this year was done with the sole intent of losing as many games as possible.

Definition of tanking...making every possible move to lose as many games as possible.

How can you abandon a team when you even DON'T have a team. Please, just please tell, with the best possible DC, settings and everything, how many games you think this team would have won?


You call that tanking but i just call it a not being dumb as hell. Had stupid, 35 years old Rashard Lewis jeopardized my chances for Magic (although i was 2nd worst team even with him) i would have cut my balls off.

I mean, wow, Kings won 20 games and he should have won 25, that's what really is all about. Ridicilous.

Disagree ...

You can't be considered tanking when you play your BEST TEAM ... which the Kings did regularly (courtesy of the cpu i guess) and which explains how they got 20 wins out of this sotrry bunch.

If you trade you players for cap space, thats your business decision. If you lose many games because of this, thats again your business decision. Tanking, my friends, is NOT giving your best effort with WHAT YOU HAVE. Put your best players on IL or in the outskirt of your DC, THATS tanking.


In reality too, btw. Or you think anyone accused the Knicks of tanking when they started 5 pieces that abolutely didn't fit together ... which everybody could see for a long long time ... or later when they played mainly young guys that probably wouldn't be in the rotation for many other teams? Or was that only because the Knickerbockers didn't have their draft pick anymore ?



Sorry, bods, the Kings weren't tanking, they were completely dismanteling their team to get a quick restart. The did press the reset button early and now have 41.8 mio cap space, just before the arrival of a hard cap that won't allow any big contract extensions anymore. Their other option would have been mediocrity for a couple of seasons and rebuild the standard way (Hawks anyone ?). Did they make their team weaker and weaker over the season? Maybe, but they won 11 games before the AS-break and 11 games after that. Did their lineup look like a complete disgrace? Probably, but look who they still beat.

If anything, that was clever GM'ing what they did to get a top team again in a hurry
 :hail:



I'm not sure what exactly you try to prevent now with a rule ... :?

And the difference in that is 3 draft pick slots.  Not ridiculous at all.

rules have been added specifically for your case.  It will be dealt with in the future.  Tanking to lose as many games as possible is not welcomed, and was far too abundant this year.

Having to go CPU rec is EXACTLY my point.  It shows their intent.  They didn't care.  What they did in the offseason shows that they were dismantling.  What they did in-season shows that they didn't care.

This discussion isn't about whether or not he should have stuck with his high-priced veterans or cleared the books and started over.  This is about a complete and utter lack of caring during the season.  That's tantamount to tanking in my book.

The point of the regular season is not to get the next draftee.  Showing absolutely zero activity during season (even though he was on the boards) shows a purpose to lose as many games as possible. 

This year, as a whole, was a sham.  There were 4-5 teams that made in-season roster decisions (not trades) for the sole purpose of increasing draft stock.  That's a disservice to the league.

Well, we could solve this by going back to the computer generated drafts.  Then there won't be those highly sought after rookies that cause GMs to get excited about losing.

Why punish the rest of us...?  :)

Celts...did the Kings play their BEST TEAM?  How can you tell?  

The CPU rec doesn't necessarily play the best team.  Heck if I keep Sparks off of the IR the computer constantly finds playing time for him...even if it means he is playing PF or SG.

If a GM is trying to play his best team then he will...like the Knicks in the real NBA....try different rotations or try players at different positions.  Trading longer contracts for expirings doesn't imply tanking....I agree that it can be a solid managerial move.  Trading expirings for expirings in order to get lower talent is tanking.

Off course! Why the hell would i care? What? I was supposed to write how Mike Bibby, 38 years old pg, with no trading value, scored 15pts and dished out 7as while i was crushed by 40?! Ridicilous!


For who? For a contender, a playoff team? Or for a rebuilding team like mine?

Oh, i deeply apologize for being the first bad team EVER who was hoping for a first pick in the draft! What a ridicilous accusations. Yeah, i get it, the only problem is i was the first who said it loudly, that's all. I should have pretended like i care about winning and not being interested in Magic. I could have even won an astonishing 23 games this season that way.

And Kings reaction just proves what I don't want.

In the future, you will be penalized.  The rules stipulate possibly losing your first round pick with an extreme of being replaced in the league.  You are to place your best team on the court.

Are we starting nitpicking now or what ?

The opposite of "playing your best team" is "not playing your best team". Can you tell me that the kings were deliberately NOT playing their best team (aka the best they had on their roster)? Did I see Collison or Pietrus or Bibby benched? Not once.

Bods, I agree that he could (and probably should) have pulled a "Celtics approximately 2006", that glorious season where I got 19 wins and gave a tryout to around 125 FA pickups, young wannabees and trade fillers. He could (and should) have changed his lineup weekly, could have lost even more that way (at least I would have tried a lineup of Valdez - Turkoglu - Hayes and Bischoff at least once to see if they are any good). But honestly, as bad as this season was for the Kings, i had one main purpose: CAP SPACE.

The pick is nice and all, but there's no guarantee it will be the top pick (I would be very very surprised if it is), and they will get a nice talent in the draft. But the real season for the Kings starts on FA day 1 when they will be THE major player in free agency and this is all that counts.

Ivan "not caring" about the Kings didn't stop him from creating all that cap space and making more trades than the Bulls, Lakers, Warriors, Jazz and Knicks, all losing teams themselves.

Yes. I should have kept Rashard Lewis and draft some no namer instead of Magic. That would really be a smart move. We should invite GM's from mental institutions from this point on.


With 3000 posts in my books, numerous topics, articles, trades, contraversials and everything else, i can be anything besides labeled as not carryin for this league.


As far as this season goes, i really had no bussines to do! I cleared the cap, have no one to trade anymore, no youth to write about, nothing. Only thing i could do is to wait for the draft. I mean, why i would waste my time for nothing? What? I was supposed to spend hours and hours with other GM's tryin to convince how it's smart for them to give me some of their best young players for my 37 year old fossil?! This is not about tanking, it's about not being naive about things when you know you really can't do anything about.

Celtics, you're missing the point entirely.  This has nothing to do with trades and offseason moves.  This has everything to do with intention.  His intention was to ensure a shot at Magic.  He's said so numerous times in this thread already.  Not caring enough to post a DC, after injuries and trades, is tantamount to showing your intent to lose as many games as possible.  It's come right from the horses mouth.

There is nothing you could possibly say to convince me that he didn't try to lose as many games this season as possible.  Nothing.  Especially not when he has admitted to doing so himself.

Depth Charts are one of the measurements of league activity.  Have been since we've started.  If you don't care about this season enough to post a depth chart, I will find someone who does.

Again, tanking IMHO means to play your lesser guys to get a good pick AND still have a good team to go with the following season. The Kings have NO TEAM, just a high pick.

Could we end this fruitless discussion?

The difference is, if he didnt change his DC after injuries, then he wasnt even fielding a full team

Our definitions are different then.  My definition is actions (or inactions) for the purpose of losing games.  That describes his season to a 'T'.  I understand moves to clear cap space, moves to acquire future pieces, to get rid of contracts.  All bring value beyond the draft pick.  But ignoring the season has one sole purpose.

He has said so numerous times but he won't fool me. I know Ivan from all those seasons and I know FBB well enough to know that one rookie, as good as he may be, won't take you anywhere near the playoffs when you have to play him around Boozer, Marquez, Caron Butler and Johnny Duncan.

believe it, the Knicks with BIRD AND MAGIC won't make the playoffs next year.


Apart from the fact he killed all chances at Magic with stupidity, I know that Ivan has prepared his free agency moves already and plans to contend again next year, with or without Magic Johnson ...

That's irrespective of whether or not Magic Johnson would be a valuable addition and whether or not he was trying to lose games.  It's nice to know that Kings entire plan wasn't getting Magic Johnson, but that also doesn't mean he wasn't trying to do so.

I also disagree that one player can't set the course.  When I got Tracy, and made a few other good moves, I went from bottom in the league to playoff team in one season.  So yes, the right draftee can set the course for a dramatic turnaround.  And yes, Kings purposefully tried to lose as many games as possible.  I think your friendship with Ivan has clouded what everyone else sees as obvious (including the man in question himself).

Can you belive it?! :shock:


Lie.


And lies some more. I've NEVER had a lesser player in a starting lineup. In just a few DC's i made this season ALL of my "best" players (Bibby, Piterus, Lewis, Haywood, Parker, Collison) start or played alots of minutes. This is absolute BS.


Yes, it's a big problem. If i'm not active (although i had absolutely no reason to be so this season) that's called "not carryin for your team" while commish has absoluetly no problems with the fact that we haven't seen a post in more then 3 or so seasons by the Lakers, Wizards or his brother (i hope you won't take this personally) WolvesGM whom i can't recall when was the last time i seen him.

But yes, it's a big, big problem when KingsGM does that (although is not true, i made some trades, threw a comments here and there and etc).


Feel free to do so. As i said, that seems like your wish for quite some time. I'm not going to sit here and beg for forgiveness for the things i haven't done and this false and ridicilous accusations!

To add another voice to the arguement, I totally agree with Bods here. It's not right to have teams losing on purpose.

It wouldn't stand in the NBA, and we have always said we try to remain as close as a sim league can be to the real thing.

This has nothing to do with a friendship, I would tell you the same about any other GM here.

I see a plan and as much as I believe it's not working (you can't buils a team soley through FA and one pick ... just my believe) I will watch it with amusement.

If this "disgusting" team management goes on for another season then I would second every move, but I don't see any necessary action to be taken now.

So when players get injured, and you don't replace them, that's fielding your best team?  When you make a trade and don't adjust your lineup, that's fielding your best team?  Horse shit.


1) Keith has missed 8 check-ins in 5 years.  That's less than 2 per year.  He holds onto his players too long, but he's here.
2) LakersGM has been discussed many times, both in public and private.
3) I've never had a problem contacting WizardsGM.

But, this isn't about activity.  This is about tanking.  Your lack of activity managing your roster shows your INTENTIONS, intentions you've admitted to as 'why should I care?'.


When in doubt, cry that you're being unfairly persecuted.  Bullshit.  I sent Hawks a very condescending PM about his last Depth Chart, and I like HawksGM about as much as anyone else in the league.  This has nothing to do with who I like and don't like but actions I don't like.  And I don't like tanking in one iota.

But yes, you're unfairly persecuted.

What does having a plan have to do with purposefully losing games? Why can't you have a plan AND hope to lose?  That's exactly what Ivan's doing here, IMO.  Part of his plan is to lose as many games as possible.  And in the future there will be punishments for that.

Before this year, there was no penalty for tanking unless you do it 4x in a season.  It's an oversight I can't believe I missed.  But this, and Ivan's campaign here, will be addressed in future seasons.  This year was a flat-out joke.  From the Kings, to the Heat, to the Hawks, and quite a few people inbetween.

This has nothing to do with friendship. How many times he went against me on some matters he didn't feel right or when he thought i was wrong? We don't have any absurd clan here if that's what you think.


Man, do you even listen to yourself? What? Haywood was injured and wow, i didn't replace him with some garbage, miserable player and that such a big issue?! I mean, have you seen my bench?! It's not like there's Emeka Okafor waiting for his chance! This is just ridicilous.


Yeah, i forgot all you have to do is fill the check-ins and everyhing else is fine. That's definitely the most important thing to do in sim league. Give me a break.


Lol! That's the main condition for stayin in the league!? Oh, i should have sent you couple of emails "Hi Bods, i'm here!", right? What a laughter. Like you didn't know i was here. As i said, double standards.


And you could have done the same thing with me. You didn't. I never got any warnings.

There is like 10 times in this thread i explained why i ignored the season and you still stick to your false accusation. I give up.


You know what? If i get Magic in the draft i'll trade him for expiring and a future first, i don't give a shit anymore. I don't want to build a team under a assumptions i was cheatin or anything like that.

I'm just going to repeat one quote by KingsGM, and leave the thread.


In the future, this won't be allowed.  And that's all I'm saying.

You can question me as a person as much as you want but i challenge you to find one single proof, situation, trade or anything else where i wasn't being fair or straight. I have a pretty good relationship with just about anyone in this league, never insulted or cheated anyone. Ever.

Me being honest is not a proof i was tanking.

Thank you.

i guess we are talking here about 2 different things.

First imo Ivan did nothing wrong to suggest he was tanking. He is one of the more active guys here and showed us once that he can rebuild a team. The second part is he should have at least post DC charts and put a little more effort into his team this season. But we all know Ivan is very emotional and if he had no trust into his team he is too quick down.
I am sure the knicks at least had 3 posts with praying for number 1 pick and did nothing else the whole season to improve the team. If Ivans wish for a good guy is already tanking, i can´t see the point.
As bods already posted there were several other gms who tanked on purpose to get a better pick during the season. Ivans only fault was he didn´t care enough to post a DC. Which is bad enough imo but clearly no sign of tanking.
We should leave it to every gm if he wants to rebuild through trades or draft and FA.
Everyone knew that Ivan was aiming for one of the higher picks and getting as many cap room as possible.
And there is some kind of tanking even in the real nba. The spurs did it in the season they got duncan and the cavs also did it for LB. Some teams even admitted that they didn´t care anymore after ALLstar break because of the chance to get a superstar.

And a note to TOM: i did post all DC charts. they reason why i didn´t change it even after my starters went down, was because i wanted to test who would get the backups mins left from the cpu. It was pure luck that i still won so many games.

That about summarizes what I wanted to express all along. Thanks for putting it into readable format.
 :cheers:

Pacers read my mind.

100% accurate post.

As a true NBA Spurs fan I find this offensive.  The year the Spurs "tanked" just happen to be the year Robinson played only a handful of games and Elliot missed around half the season.  When the best player on the floor is Avery Johnson surrounded by guys who were lucky to be drawing a NBA salary it is difficult to win many games.

... so you mean they couldn't have orchestrated a few trades to make them better and win more games then?
:lol:

Still missing the point.  It would be somewhat the same if the coach decided he wasn't going to show up for the 2nd half of the season and make Avery Johnson a player-coach. 


Tanking is not only the actions you take but the inactions you take as well.  If you don't care about winning (which Ivan has said multiple times) and don't do your job that is necessary to win, then you're taking actions to lose.  He didn't post his DC because he didn't care, and he didn't care because he didn't want to win.  Had winning been a priority, he would have posted his DC after trades to get the best possible lineup out there.  Tanking can be inactions as well as actions.  And Ivan posting one DC all year certainly aided his quest to get Magic Johnson.

But this issue is dead.  And this thread is locked, as we could go on about this forever.

hey, hey, hey, Larry Brown did exactly that last season.
 :lmao:

Which I would call tanking.



If Isiah didn't trade their first round pick for Eddy Curry  :lmao:  :bods: