2nd round picks

[WizardsGM-old2]

I know there have been discussions in the past here about options for 2nd round picks, but nothing recent and it's something that I can't quite wrap my head around...

Why is there no option (other than a ridiculously expensive TBD contract extension) for a third year on 2nd round picks?

Last draft teams were paying people to take their 2nd round picks, now two sims into the current season the Spurs are trying to get ahead of the game and unload thier 2nd rounders for the next two years.  I've only been here for a month and I already realize that 2nd round picks are less than useless.

Doesn't it seem ass-backwards to anyone else that during one of the more exciting times of the season most GM's are trying to opt out of the second round?  If that isn't the most obvious sign that the current system doesn't work I don't know what is?

As it stands now there is ZERO incentive for spending any time at all hunting for a second round gem...even if you find one, and he develops into a real baller, all you've done is act as a farm team for someone with more cap space than you.  I can offer BJ Armstrong $1 million while the rest of the league can offer him $12 million...and I was the one who picked him.

I know, I know...just spend the TBD to extend his contract, problem solved.  Except with no opportunity to earn any dough by writing articles the most a GM can be assurred of making in a season is $320 for attendance.  The math just doesn't work for me.

Can someone please explain the logic of making it so difficult and expensive to keep a 2nd round pick?  I thought the idea was to reward activity and commitment, but the current system seems to punish the GM's who take the time to scour the draft class for a player everyone else missed.  I just don't get it.

 

[CavsGM]

There is an option. You can make the 2nd year of the contract 3.75 million I believe. This would allow you make a an offer that starts at up to 120% of that amount, up to six years.

And most people don't want there picks because most picks turn into nothing. It is rare that one becomes even a role player, someone off the bench. And if it does happen, it's usually many years down the line.

[HornetsGM]

I think that option was removed once we started the bank system.

[WizardsGM-old2]

There is an option. You can make the 2nd year of the contract 3.75 million I believe. This would allow you make a an offer that starts at up to 120% of that amount, up to six years.

And most people don't want there picks because most picks turn into nothing. It is rare that one becomes even a role player, someone off the bench. And if it does happen, it's usually many years down the line.

2nd year at $3.75 just means I can offer $4.5 while the rest of the league offers $12.  Two years means no bird rights limiting teams ability to resign their own drafted players if they are over the cap, also means that the player won't make extension offers.

Even if it's only 1 out of 100 that turn into something, if it was easier to keep that player more GM's would keep their picks, hunt through the draft class, and submit draft lists...all of which help improve GM involvement, which is a constant source of complaints in any league.

I love making 2nd round picks in all the other leagues I'm in, just for the shot that I find a hidden gem.  Here, every offer I put out there has my 2nd rounders attached, just to unload the dead weight.

[HawksGM]

I think that option was removed once we started the bank system.

I optioned both of my 2nd round picks this year.  I wasn't sure if it was still in play either, but I guess it is.

[WizardsGM-old2]

I think that option was removed once we started the bank system.

I optioned both of my 2nd round picks this year.  I wasn't sure if it was still in play either, but I guess it is.

I don't understand the benefit to increasing their 2nd year salary...it means in year two you pay 7 times the regular 2nd round salary, just so the next year you can only get outbid by $6 million rather than $8 million?

I realize that very few 2nd rounders will ever be worthy of a max contract, but it's the chance to land that 1 in a million guy with the 37th overall pick that keeps me searching the draft preview.  The current system makes me want to pay someone $25 to take the pick off my hands, and skip draft day...not a big boost to GM activity eh?

[HawksGM]

well there really is no loss.  These guys aren't going to develop enough to get the max salary. They are going to be MLE players at best and this option gives you the opportunity to match that if you so choose.  Another benefit is a larger expiring to trade and there is no real downfall if you are over the cap and not going to hit the hard cap by doing this.  This is a no lose situation for someone in my situation.

[NetsGM]

2nd year at $3.75 just means I can offer $4.5 while the rest of the league offers $12.  Two years means no bird rights limiting teams ability to resign their own drafted players if they are over the cap, also means that the player won't make extension offers.

This league was setup back when that's the way the NBA was setup.  In the NBA, before the latest collective bargaining agreement, you were limited to either the cap space you had, or your MLE, whichever is greater.  Since FBB is incapable of offering multi-year MLE deals, the increase to 3.75 million was allowed so a long-term MLE deal can be used on second round picks.  The goal wasn't to make it so you could offer a max deal, but so you could have the same protection the nba had.

By and large, this league is based off the previous revision of the collective bargaining agreement (6 year deals, 12.5% raises, etc). 

[CavsGM]

There's nothing wrong with the system. People get rid of there picks because they turn into crap, not because of the system. Show me someone who will offer a 2nd round pick with two years experience anything more than the MLE(let alone a max contract), and I'll show you an idiot. 2nd round picks rarely EVER turn into someone that is worth the MLE, let alone after two seasons.

[SpursGM-old]

Actually I try to group my seconds into one year.  I use them as roster fillers at minimum wage and try to use the small salaries in years that I will have cap room to spend so that I can manage the hard cap better.

The option to raise the second year was caused by a player that I scouted and drafted: Mark Bird.  He developed into a solid backup point guard that I lost to an MLE bid when all I could offer was around $600,000.

For that 1 in a million second rounder that turns into someone worth more than a MLE bid you have 2 seasons to earn enough cash to extend one year and get bird rights.  And since it only costs $300 to extend a minimum contract with attendance you earn more than that in 1 season.

[WizardsGM-old2]

There's nothing wrong with the system. People get rid of there picks because they turn into crap, not because of the system. Show me someone who will offer a 2nd round pick with two years experience anything more than the MLE(let alone a max contract), and I'll show you an idiot. 2nd round picks rarely EVER turn into someone that is worth the MLE, let alone after two seasons.

If 2nd round picks never develop into anything, why waste time by having the 2nd round at all?  Why not just cancel it, save two days of work for the commish and get to next season 48 hours earlier?

But if we're going to have a two round draft, why not try and make it worthwhile for the GM's that put the time into it?  Every other league I'm in the second round is a great chance to take a flyer on a guy; maybe he's a dud and you cut him for free, maybe he's a 14PPG guy off the bench, or maybe he turns into a star over the course of a couple TC's.

I know that last one is a long shot, but that's what makes the draft fun.  And I would be happy to pay $6 million a year for that 14PPG bench player too, more than the team that drafted him can offer...that's stupider than someone offering the max for a third year player, a lot stupider.

[WizardsGM-old2]

2nd year at $3.75 just means I can offer $4.5 while the rest of the league offers $12.  Two years means no bird rights limiting teams ability to resign their own drafted players if they are over the cap, also means that the player won't make extension offers.

This league was setup back when that's the way the NBA was setup.  In the NBA, before the latest collective bargaining agreement, you were limited to either the cap space you had, or your MLE, whichever is greater.  Since FBB is incapable of offering multi-year MLE deals, the increase to 3.75 million was allowed so a long-term MLE deal can be used on second round picks.  The goal wasn't to make it so you could offer a max deal, but so you could have the same protection the nba had.

By and large, this league is based off the previous revision of the collective bargaining agreement (6 year deals, 12.5% raises, etc). 

I understand the math with regards to the long-term MLE type offer...I just don't see what difference it makes.  If I've got FA dollars to spend, and you don't, how does it help that you can offer $4.5 while I can offer $6, or $8, for the guy you took the time and effort to draft.

What is the incentive to put the time into making 2nd round selections?  Complaints of lack of GM activity are common in every league, and here we have a rule that makes me want to participate LESS.  I don't get it, probably won't anytime soon.

[SpursGM-old]

Wizards...I think you are looking at this wrong.  You can scout and draft second rounders and the risks of losing a gem are small.  Celtics and I both have found some solid backups in this fashion.  And all it takes to hold onto that special player is $300...less than one season of activity.  Unless you are lucky enough to find a gem in every second round you should accumulate more than that easily.  If you find one gem every 5 years it will cost you $300 to get bird rights and over 5 years you can easily earn $1,600.

In leagues that give you more options to make money it is also much more expensive to buy extensions (or reductions or true potential).  This league seems to have a good balance between the ability to make money (just show up for every DC and 3 offseason events) and reasonable costs for spending the money.

[WizardsGM-old2]

Actually I try to group my seconds into one year.  I use them as roster fillers at minimum wage and try to use the small salaries in years that I will have cap room to spend so that I can manage the hard cap better.

The option to raise the second year was caused by a player that I scouted and drafted: Mark Bird.  He developed into a solid backup point guard that I lost to an MLE bid when all I could offer was around $600,000.

For that 1 in a million second rounder that turns into someone worth more than a MLE bid you have 2 seasons to earn enough cash to extend one year and get bird rights.  And since it only costs $300 to extend a minimum contract with attendance you earn more than that in 1 season.

Savvy use of the draft picks, I tip my hat to you sir.

It might only be one in a million that's worth the max, but it's more frequent that a 2nd rounder is worth more than an MLE.  Why should I have to pay TBD (which are wicked hard to come by if you aren't a playoff team) to keep MY guy.  If he's a second round pick, that means 29 GM's didn't want him on draft day...I spent the time and effort it takes to see something the rest of the league missed, now I have to drain my TBD to defend him from the GM's that didn't want the player until he proved himself while playing for me.

Again I ask, what is the incentive to make a second round pick?  It's time consuming to come up with a 15 player (or 29 if some GM's get their way) list, and even if I am lucky/smart enough to pick well all it's going to do is cost me valuable TBD two seasons from now.  

What could the possible argument be against coming up with a system that encourages GM's to hang onto their 2nd rounders and be more active during the draft?  

Allowing GM's to cut 2nd rounders they don't like will satisfy the guys who say there are NEVER any players who are worth taking (they can still CPU their picks if they really hate the 2nd round).  Allowing GM's to retain bird rights (without TBD) on 2nd round picks benefits the dedicated, active GM's that put the extra time in.  And the whole process means that teams like the Hornets won't have to pay someone to take a draft pick from them.  Seems like a good deal on all fronts, where is the downside?

[WizardsGM-old2]

Wizards...I think you are looking at this wrong.  You can scout and draft second rounders and the risks of losing a gem are small.  Celtics and I both have found some solid backups in this fashion.  And all it takes to hold onto that special player is $300...less than one season of activity.  Unless you are lucky enough to find a gem in every second round you should accumulate more than that easily.  If you find one gem every 5 years it will cost you $300 to get bird rights and over 5 years you can easily earn $1,600.

In leagues that give you more options to make money it is also much more expensive to buy extensions (or reductions or true potential).  This league seems to have a good balance between the ability to make money (just show up for every DC and 3 offseason events) and reasonable costs for spending the money.

By $20.

Again, where is the incentive to get involved in the 2nd round of the draft?  Why should I have to pay extra TBD for a player 29 GM's passed on?  It only hurts the GM who took the player in the first place, and absolutely benefits the rest of the GM's (including the 50% that didn't submit day 2 draft lists) in the league who have had two seasons to evaluate my player.

Why shouldn't my commitment to the league, and dedication to the draft process at the very least give me the chance to get an extension offer from my draft selection without using a full season worth of TBD earnings. 

I'll also take this opportunity to apologize to anyone irritated by my refusal to let this go.  It's gonna be a long week for you I'm afraid, this has had my knickers in a knot since day one.