Heat-Pistons Trade

[KnicksGM-old5]

9th pick
clifford robinson 

for

alvin robertson

[HeatGM]

i didnt say you can post this... it was just a proposal nothing final..please dont do this again..

[KnicksGM-old5]

Is this a SSBA thing? In RBSL, if one GM makes an offer, and the other accepts, it's good to go.

Next time, preface your offer with "I'm not sure I want to this, but..." or "I just want to gauge your interest in..."

[RaptorsGM]

Why am I reading Heat-Pistons trade when the Heat and Knicks are involved?

[KnicksGM-old5]

Why am I reading Heat-Pistons trade when the Heat and Knicks are involved?

Because I'm an idiot.

[HornetsGM]

Is this a SSBA thing? In RBSL, if one GM makes an offer, and the other accepts, it's good to go.

Next time, preface your offer with "I'm not sure I want to this, but..." or "I just want to gauge your interest in..."

You can bind yourself to a trade via PM in SSBA.

[CelticsGM]

well, the "rule" here in SSBA is that when both parties agree to an offer by PM they are bound to post it, too.

So if the Knicks replied "I do that" and the Heat replied "ok" it's a done deal. But honestly, sending out an initial offer alone shouldn't force you to consider it a done deal on your part. At least the first offer should  be regarded "offer to negotiate", for heaven's sake.

It's discussable if sending a reworked proposal - like "no, but i'd do x for y" - should already be considered accepted on my behalf.

[KnicksGM-old5]

well, the "rule" here in SSBA is that when both parties agree to an offer by PM they are bound to post it, too.

So if the Knicks replied "I do that" and the Heat replied "ok" it's a done deal. But honestly, sending out an initial offer alone shouldn't force you to consider it a done deal on your part. At least the first offer should  be regarded "offer to negotiate", for heaven's sake.

It's discussable if sending a reworked proposal - like "no, but i'd do x for y" - should already be considered accepted on my behalf.

Got it.

[CelticsGM]

well, that's MY understanding, let's see if the league powers share it ...

[KnicksGM-old5]

I'm not disputing any ruling BTW. This trade is dead in the water as far as I'm concerned.

[HornetsGM]

well, the "rule" here in SSBA is that when both parties agree to an offer by PM they are bound to post it, too.

So if the Knicks replied "I do that" and the Heat replied "ok" it's a done deal. But honestly, sending out an initial offer alone shouldn't force you to consider it a done deal on your part. At least the first offer should  be regarded "offer to negotiate", for heaven's sake.

It's discussable if sending a reworked proposal - like "no, but i'd do x for y" - should already be considered accepted on my behalf.

You have to look from the outside -- would the person's actions indicate that they are making an offer? If so, then it's an offer, regardless of what the person actually intended.

I would view a first PM of "x for y" differently than a PM of "x for y" after a long period of negotiation -- but not much differently. That's still strong language, in my opinion.

If I wrote in a PM to someone -- "x for y", and that person says, "ok, post it" -- I would see myself as bound by that... Even if that was my first PM to that person.

To me, something like "what do you think about x for y?" indicates bargaining talk.

It's really a case-by-case basis analysis. Just be cautious.

[NetsGM]

i didnt say you can post this... it was just a proposal nothing final.

Here was your entire message.

9th pick, clifford robinson for alvin robertson?

To me, that's an offer.  Especially when you end it with a question mark.  And never preface it with "would you be interested in something like...".

I'm going to leave this up to Pacers decision, but to me that IS an offer.  You need to be more clear on your intentions. 

please dont do this again..

No, please don't YOU do this again.  You've been here long enough to know what is and is not a proposal, KnicksGM is just starting in this league.  You need to be clear with your intentions, which your message clearly was not.  It is on you to make sure that your message cannot be interpreted as an offer.

(btw, that will be one of the features of my online version of the league.  There will be a checkbox that says "this is a proposal", so the receiving GM will clearly know what is and is not a proposal.  For the time being, we're counting on old time GM's to be clear on their intentions and make sure that they use verbiage that is not misleading or confusing).

[PacersGM]

my 2 cents on usual trade offers are:
The heat clearly send an offer not a proposal imo. If you send an offer like the heat did you have to be prepared that your offer could be accepted. otherwise there is no sense in sending an offer. normal the offers i send or get are only the start for a longer discussion process. If my first offer is acccepted it means that i will get the best possible trade i could imagine. Still i would never post a trade offer before i get a message back telling me to post it. reason for this is that i never really know if it is a proposal or an offer. you know the language barrier could always cause a misinterpretation.
on the other side heat are long enough in this league to know that we value trade offers very high and that we will make them binding if you don?t declare it as a trade possibility.
but knicksgm already accepted the trade as dead. so i won't force this trade to go through.

[KnicksGM-old5]

Thanks guys for clearing it up.

Still i would never post a trade offer before i get a message back telling me to post it.

This was my mistake. I usually abide by this, but my home computer was messed up, so I was actually afraid that Heat would post the trade, I wouldn't be online to accept, and I would be accused of trying to back out of an agreed-upon trade.

Sorry for causing so much trouble already. 

[HornetsGM]

It's no trouble Knicks. It's helpful, in my opinion, to get this clear (since it hasn't really come up recently) -- plus, you don't appear to be the one at fault here. I agree with the Pacers and Pistons that the Heat's message looks like an offer.