Kings - Celtics

[SonicsGM]

This is pure craziness.  Derek, can we lock this topic please?

[NetsGM]

And that dirk deal does stink.  He signed Dirk, only to trade him for a player and $450, the $450 only to make the player expiring.  What was the point of signing him again?

There's no doubt in my mind that those two will make trades between them that they wouldn't necessarily make with other people.  They call it "being friends", but I don't think being friends in that regard is good for the league. 

Imagine if we each had a 'buddy'.  If I decided, 'eh, I don't want to compete, I'l just give Keith Okafor, Pettit, and Sammy for expirings'.  Leave Keith with Mo Cheeks, Gatling, Pettit, Okafor, Dalembert.  Would that be good?  Hey, I'm just helping out a friend, what's wrong with that?

Yes, It's great to be cordial.  But when making trades, you should hold all teams to the same standard, doing what's best for YOURSELF.  Yes, you may not be re-signing dirk, and may be looking for a sign and trade.  Maybe there were no better offers for Dirk in a sign and trade, I don't know.  But if Dirk was signed and traded just because he was going to walk and Kings wanted Celtics to have him, that is collusion, and that is not good for the league.  I have absolutely no idea if that happened, but that's an example where 'friendship' is not good.  Maybe Kings didn't want to add the salary of the pick, either this year or in future years getting a pick back.  But if he didn't, and this pick was traded for other reasons, that's not good.

[KingsGM-old]

And that dirk deal does stink. 

Unbelivable. Please feel free to check my inbox.

Imagine if we each had a 'buddy'.  If I decided, 'eh, I don't want to compete, I'l just give Keith Okafor, Pettit, and Sammy for expirings'.  Leave Keith with Mo Cheeks, Gatling, Pettit, Okafor, Dalembert.  Would that be good?  Hey, I'm just helping out a friend, what's wrong with that?

It's kinda terrible analogy cause obvious, all i've done was trading washed up 35 years, former superstar who couldn't have helped his team in passing the lower seed in the first rn of the playoffs. Okafor and Petit are in their primes so that's uncomparable.

 

Yes, you may not be re-signing dirk, and may be looking for a sign and trade.  Maybe there were no better offers for Dirk in a sign and trade, I don't know. 

Off course there was no offers. I didn't know which one is more shittier.

But if Dirk was signed and traded just because he was going to walk and Kings wanted Celtics to have him, that is collusion, and that is not good for the league.

 

After i seen what crappy offers i had for Dirk i traded him to the Celtics. Why? Because he was harrasing me about Mcgrady from the momment i met him. I had something like 50 + offers from Tom about Mcgrady (that's actually how we become friends cause after some period i was making joke out of his offers and about him in general). Also, do you remember how he was pissed 2 seasons ago when i stole Dirk right in front of his nose. He thought he got a deal with the Warriors and the next thing he found out that i have him. He was furious (it's that thread where he was complaining how i put a pressure on Spurs and WarriorsGM so that the whole deal should be canceled). So, after years and years of wanting Mcgrady and the fact that i stole a Dirk from him i said what the hell? Let him have it, i don't have any better offers for him so be it. And that's all there is. Had i traded Dirk to someone else for just a expirings i knew he wouldn't talk to me for the rest of my life ).

Maybe Kings didn't want to add the salary of the pick, either this year or in future years getting a pick back.  But if he didn't, and this pick was traded for other reasons, that's not good.

Off course. I mean why is this such a big deal all of a sudden. I did this in the past as well! I don't need that sallarie!


Also, if i dealt Dirk to the Celtics just cause of friendship can anyone explain to me why did i trade Mcgrady for basically nothing to the Pistons as well?!

[CelticsGM]

woha, it's getting tough.

This calls for the team of CSI PHILLY and special agent Kered (name changed to protect the innocent), to fully discover the truth.

please check especially:
- at what EXACT time did negotiations for Dirk start between the cheaters
- did the Kings REALLY have no better offer at the time the trade was AGREED on (not posted, which is just an information for the other GMs after all)
- is a 35yr old Dirk making 120mio comparable with Emeka Okafor AND Garrett Pettit ?

the CSI team will have access to all PMs, chat logs and everything necessary to close this topic once and for all and all parties involved will accept any ruling from the league headquarters.



and then lets stop this ...

[KingsGM-old]

Let me just add how's this league  hypocritical when it comes to trades. Anytime you make a thread about your players all you get is some miserable offers, and the momment you trade them all of sudden everyone would have given you the more. It's been going on for some time, same old story every time.

[PacersGM]

maybe ivan you should start to answer some offers and negotiate more

just an idea.

[KingsGM-old]

Um..what? What offers?

[NetsGM]

few things:
1) Just because something is taken to the extreme doesn't mean it's not a valid analogy.  In fact, it was meant to be taken to an extreme to show what an awful precedent it sets.
2) Whether or not the Kings had better offers at the time has little relevance.  I don't feel like going back to check, and won't.  But what did the Kings gain by making the trade?  Nothing.  They gained an expiring contract that they didn't play, which brings us back to the whole crux of the problem. The trade wasn't made for the Kings.  In fact, he probably would have been better off letting Dirk walk.  He literally got nothing for him.  The Kings didn't benefit from the sign and subsequent trade.  The other 27 teams certainly didn't, as they lost out on the chance to get him in free agency.  Only the Celtics did.  The only discernable reason he was signed and traded was to guarantee he would go to the Celtics with no gain coming back to the Kings.
3) As others have said, of course all initial offers are crap.  That's bargaining.

[KingsGM-old]

I'll just repeat for the one last time:

With a right and decent offer ANYONE could have had Dirk. Anyone.

And that's all.

[CelticsGM]

few things:
1) Just because something is taken to the extreme doesn't mean it's not a valid analogy.  In fact, it was meant to be taken to an extreme to show what an awful precedent it sets.
2) Whether or not the Kings had better offers at the time has little relevance.  I don't feel like going back to check, and won't.  But what did the Kings gain by making the trade?  Nothing.  They gained an expiring contract that they didn't play, which brings us back to the whole crux of the problem. The trade wasn't made for the Kings.  In fact, he probably would have been better off letting Dirk walk.  He literally got nothing for him.  The Kings didn't benefit from the sign and subsequent trade.  The other 27 teams certainly didn't, as they lost out on the chance to get him in free agency.  Only the Celtics did.  The only discernable reason he was signed and traded was to guarantee he would go to the Celtics with no gain coming back to the Kings.
3) As others have said, of course all initial offers are crap.  That's bargaining.

So here are my last words:

ahem Bods, are you sure you know what you are talking about here ?

Dirk was traded for Rashard Lewis, Gary Rivero and $450.

That money - $450 are more than a full season's "salary" btw - was NOT used for reducing some contract (that was the other deal with Del Negro and Julius Smith).

Rashard did start all 50 games for the Kings ... and was probably the main reason they won 10 of their 22 games during the first 5 sims (and did have just the 4th worst record then if i remember correctly)

And Dirk was not signed for ME, i would never have asked for more than a 3yr deal. But that ridiculous salary and the consequent move to "financial untradeability" made it probably easier for me to aquire him, as the low number of offers proved later on.


Let's at least get the facts straight among all the shattered porcelain ...
 

[NetsGM]

 Ok, so the money wasn't used to shorten his contract, but we're arguing semantics.  He himself said he doesn't care about $, so it obviously wasn't a huge consideration he got.  He also said he didn't care about winning.  So in his gain for youth and picks, he got no consideration.

You can't tell me he couldn't have gotten an equal offer from every team in the league.

but I'm not sitting here calling cheaters.  In fact, I specifically said in my first post here that I didn't think it was a big deal.  What I do think is that the Kings are more likely to give a steal to the Celtics that he won't to anyone else, or at least give priority to the celtics.  And that kind of friendship, while not cheating, I don't think is good either.

[CelticsGM]

Ok, so the money wasn't used to shorten his contract, but we're arguing semantics.  He himself said he doesn't care about $, so it obviously wasn't a huge consideration he got.  He also said he didn't care about winning.  So in his gain for youth and picks, he got no consideration.

You can't tell me he couldn't have gotten an equal offer from every team in the league.

but I'm not sitting here calling cheaters.  In fact, I specifically said in my first post here that I didn't think it was a big deal.  What I do think is that the Kings are more likely to give a steal to the Celtics that he won't to anyone else, or at least give priority to the celtics.  And that kind of friendship, while not cheating, I don't think is good either.

http://forums.ssbabasketball.com/index.php?topic=4875.0
Kings offered Dirk to everyone on July 17th 4pm

http://forums.ssbabasketball.com/index.php?topic=4883.0
I aquired Dirk almost a full day later, July 18th 3pm very close before the 24hrs had expired, and all I want to make clear that this was by no means a pre-arranged deal where Dirk was signed especially for me. Everyone had the chance to offer for him, hardly anyone did. If he "could have gotten an equal offer from every team in the league", why didn't he ? Maybe because most teams are not interested in a declining former superstar at age 35 on a 120mio contract ? You gotta ask the other teams, not me ...

And honestly, anyone else here would have signed Dirk too in the Kings place, with the hope of getting something for him. Show me one GM that can say "heck, i don't plan to keep him, so lets give everyone else a chance to sign him in FA ...". Thats complete nonsense ...

[PacersGM]

i can follow your arguments but fact is he traded dirk for less than he asked for.
i can´t pove if there weren´t any offers but i know for sure that i tried to get dirk as well and i still feel my offer was at least good enough to answer me back, which never happened.
Also i can´t prove that this was the best offer (guess it was the last and he was desperated) he got for dirk but i know that ivan always insisted on first and or young players he could use. You know real names. neither did he get from you or any other team. So it is still unclear why he had to trade dirk so quick. The only reason imo is that he feared he would win too much with dirk so he wanted to get rid of him at any price. i guess the bitter feelings of some here are that they offered more for dirk at an early time, maybe during the season or POs but ivan told them that it isn´t enough and then you get him practically at a price that most of us would pay in a heartbeat to get dirk. No i won´t call that cheating but getting an ALLstar for 450 is always leaving questions.
Maybe i should trade JO for $500 to heat or hornets so you know what i mean. i am not too serious on that point so hornets, heat this is not an offer 

[KingsGM-old]

Pacers, i can't exactly remember your offers (that probably means it wasn't any better) but i have my own reasons why i didn't trade Dirk to you.

[CelticsGM]

At that time the Pacers had exactly ONE expiring: Tanner
http://files.ssbabasketball.com/files/2015/TC/PostTC/rosters/roster13.htm

I wonder how their season would have been when they dealt their only C Houbregs (you didn't have much trust at that time Priddy can play C) for a third SF in Dirk. (oh i hear the protests already Lenard is really a SG)