Sim 3 Discussion

[RaptorsGM]

so we are calling Boykins and Jackson multi-faceted players?  Both with their B+ defense, with Boykins 0.8 blocks/game and 1.2 assists/game?  Both with less assists than turnovers?

You're playing well right now.  That doesn't change my opinion on the trade.

So...what's your point? Boykins doesn't block alot of shots or dish the ball much...neither does Melo.

Jackson doesn't pass the ball much...neither does Melo.

But are you going to tell me that getting 26 a game from your SF position is more valuable than a mid-first, 22 and 10 from your PF position and 16 from your SF position? C'mon.

Perhaps I have learned after a 70 win season last year that what happens in sim 2 or 3 is meaningless.

Erm...meaningless? So the season starts to matter sim 4? Well, because you are often short of time, how about next season we start at day 40, since everything before that doesn't matter?

I applaud your 70 win season, I congratulate you on making the finals 5 times. But I've won 14 of 15 with the team I have assembled. I ask you to list a trade I could have made for melo that would have allowed me to win 15 of the last 15, as that was the only way the trade could have been any better for me.

Melo is great, but hey...

Carmelo Anthony SF
Experience:  10
Championships:  0
Player of the Week:  1
Player of the Month:  0

[KingsGM-old]

2 good sims. 18 games into the season is a pretty fair estimate of how things are going to go.

Whatever. I had numerous hot streaks such as that, that doesn't mean i or you are the team to beat.

And besides, you current record is 14-4.

Nets are 17-5
Kings 15-6
Clippers are 16-5

As you can see, that's all only one game here and there, so it's little bit premature to tell who's THE team to beat.

[RaptorsGM]

2 good sims. 18 games into the season is a pretty fair estimate of how things are going to go.

Whatever. I had numerous hot streaks such as that, that doesn't mean i or you are the team to beat.

And besides, you current record is 14-4.

Nets are 17-5
Kings 15-6
Clippers are 16-5

As you can see, that's all only one game here and there, so it's little bit premature to tell who's THE team to beat.

I never once said I was the team to beat. That was the CelticsGm (and I appreciate that kudos).

Nor have I made an predicitons about the rest of the season.

All I have said is with my current starting lineup I am 11-1. I currently own the best record in the league, having played 12 of my 18 games on the road, many against the other top teams in the league. This is nothing that is debatable. It is fact. Am I the top team in the league? I don't think so. Am I a team that will win homecourt in the East? I think so.

[NetsGM]

So...what's your point? Boykins doesn't block alot of shots or dish the ball much...neither does Melo.

Jackson doesn't pass the ball much...neither does Melo.

But you made the point that Melo gives you 26 ppg (and on your team it was higher), and I don't think either Luke or Boykins give you much more than scoring either.  Never really have.

Erm...meaningless? So the season starts to matter sim 4? Well, because you are often short of time, how about next season we start at day 40, since everything before that doesn't matter?

First of all, I don't appreciate the shot at the sims being run.

Second, what I'm saying is the regular season doesn't determine success in the postseason.  The fact that you've won now doesn't mean you'll win in the playoffs.  I would argue that it doesn't really matter what seed you are (after the top 4) once the playoffs begin.  so the fact that you've won a few games in the beginning of the season isn't proof.

You gained some nice depth in the trade.  I'm just not a fan of trading for depth when you have one of the top options.  Nor do I think the depth you've acquired has put you into championship contention.  And I think if you do trade a guy capable of putting up 30 ppg, you should do so to get in championship contention.  But we shall see.  I don't see why there's so much venom in your post simply because I disagree.

[RaptorsGM]

Umm....

Shot at the sims being run? Is it or is it not a fact that you are often short of time?

And venom? There is no venom in my post. I am disagreeing with you that sims 1-3 are meaningless. I'm not mad that you disagree. I'm not getting angry about it, I'm simply saying that it doesn't make much sense to say the first 1/4 of a season is meaningless.

I respect your opinion, and I'm actually glad that you disagree as it (a) has given us something to debate when there don't seem to be many more debatable issues going on in SSBA these days, and (b) gives me more incentive to make this team go as far as I can make it.

But I'm not mad, and if you could hear my tone (which you obviously can't on the Internet), you would find that the tone I used in that post was incredulous, not hostile. 

[RaptorsGM]

But you made the point that Melo gives you 26 ppg (and on your team it was higher), and I don't think either Luke or Boykins give you much more than scoring either.  Never really have.

Very true with Jackson, but I'll take Boykins' 10 rebounds/game any day since he's paired in the frontcourt with an excellent rebounder in Swift. Still in the top half of the league in rpg...of course a large part of that is due to the 7.4 per game I get from the SG position.

But even if All 3 players involved in the deal are only good for scoring....Melo's 30ppg is outweighed by Jackson and Boykins' combined 38ppg.

[NetsGM]

Very true with Jackson, but I'll take Boykins' 10 rebounds/game any day since he's paired in the frontcourt with an excellent rebounder in Swift

10 rpg with B+ defense isn't all that to be excited about IMO.  Let's put it this way, if he wasn't scoring, he wouldn't be much of an asset.

But even if All 3 players involved in the deal are only good for scoring....Melo's 30ppg is outweighed by Jackson and Boykins' combined 38ppg.

Only if your prior PF (and I honestly don't remember who it was) couldn't score 8 ppg.

Here's what I'd be worried about.  Boykins and Jackson (Jackson specifically) aren't young, and I wouldn't expect to improve much more.  If their defense falls, I think that's when you get hurt in the future.  Even if Melo's defense falls (which I don't expect), he's still among the elite scorers in the league, and is worth the hit in defense.  and defense at SF is one of the positions I'm least worried about, PF may be the most important IMO.  That's why I'm not in love with Boykins. 

[RaptorsGM]

I can't disagree with that.

But basically, the one main reason I think I've improved is because that's what my record, and my quality wins over quality opponents has suggested so.

Hey, I have 64 games left to play. If I don't win 40 of those, I obviously won't be mentioned among the title contenders, and the trade for Melo might not have been all that beneficial (although if you had seen some of my other offers, you would understand that this was the ONLY offer even worth considering).

Obviously, we can't tell who the winner of the deal is until after next year's draft, when the pick has been made. If I end up getting a big steal with that pick, I will have obviously won the better of the trade.

Of course, if I continue having strong winning sims, and my record stays among the best in the league, I will consider that to be a win in the trade.

[CelticsGM]

This starts to look like a battlefield of opinions here.

Teams-on-their-last-legs vs. Up-and-coming-teams
 






... and no, i'm not talking about old vs. young (only Kings would match that completely) but about the new breed of slowly creeping into the circle of contenders teams ...
 

[NetsGM]

And of course you'd be in that "teams that have never even approached" category...



BTW, the raptors were in the "in there" category before.

And I certainly disagree that my team is on their last legs.  They're only on their last legs if I decide they are.  Especially since Trent looks like he may be starting soon.  Pettit's probably got another 7 years in him of 25+ scoring.

[CelticsGM]

but back to the points that have been made:
I truly believe that sometimes lesser players make a team better. What exactly did the Raptors accomplish with Melo and his 30ppg?
A 49-33 record, 7th seed and 1st round exit. The year before they won 6 more games, were 3rd seed and got a 1st round exit.

So a change is hardly killing a successful team. Would Melo have been a success story when paired with a good big man? Who knows, the Mavs are currently reliving the same pain as the Raps last season, Melo + LeBron + Harris and a weak frontline does get them a 11-9 record. Pretty mediocre ...


So it seems that Boykins and Luke are a better fit for the team. And please don't anybody tell me the top teams don't play hard at the beginning of the season. Nets, Hornets are veteran teams playing together for years, the Kings will never play better than now (before all the breakdowns), yet none of this teams came even close to a W. Go figure ...
 



I have no idea if i can get close again but i know i never was before. I needed perfect games from everyone to even take 2 from the Nets in a series and realized 3 seasons ago my young gun approach won't work, at least with my young guns. And since then I try to aquire a star player ...

(ivan just can't accept that a team without a true (ssba) veteran star - TMac, Dirk, Yao, KG, Emeka to name some - can be successful  )

[KingsGM-old]

Yeah, i've seen how succesfull a youth project without a true superstar really is in DJSL. No, you can't win without a superstar. Fuck the team work, it's not working.

[CelticsGM]

team work can only take you so far, you NEED a superstar to do the extra step, get to the next level. That's the same everywhere, not so in the reg season but especially in playoff series.

But something i do not like at all is that in SSBA this superstar HAST to be one of the 33, 34, 35 year old veterans. (With the noble exception of Pettit) Dirk, TMac, Yao, Marion, JRich and a few more still rule the league. NOBODY else stepped up. 9+ years into SSBA and still no other SSBA rookie can be considered "franchise guy" in the same class as these veterans, ready to take his team to the finals ...

Maybe the weaker drafts are backfiring now, but then again in the early seasons it wasn't that bad. Maybe the way doing handmade drafts in DJSL was better, since over there quite a few young guys perform on high level compareable with the Old Bunch. Morrisson, Radnidge, Kent, Barkley, Washington and Pruitt, to name a few.


Hey, KG still wins every title there, too, but at least it does look like some new guys are ready to take over soon ...
 

[HawksGM]

first time I had a chance to sit down and look...Jacquez Holton with a triple-double in our win against the Magic.  Charles Phelps really complemented Dwayne Wade this sim to form a good scoring punch.  We are still a Bailey Tobey away from being a half decent team.

[BlazersGM]

so we are calling Boykins and Jackson multi-faceted players?  Both with their B+ defense, with Boykins 0.8 blocks/game and 1.2 assists/game?  Both with less assists than turnovers?

You're playing well right now.  That doesn't change my opinion on the trade.

So...what's your point? Boykins doesn't block alot of shots or dish the ball much...neither does Melo.

Jackson doesn't pass the ball much...neither does Melo.

But are you going to tell me that getting 26 a game from your SF position is more valuable than a mid-first, 22 and 10 from your PF position and 16 from your SF position? C'mon.

Perhaps I have learned after a 70 win season last year that what happens in sim 2 or 3 is meaningless.

Erm...meaningless? So the season starts to matter sim 4? Well, because you are often short of time, how about next season we start at day 40, since everything before that doesn't matter?

I applaud your 70 win season, I congratulate you on making the finals 5 times. But I've won 14 of 15 with the team I have assembled. I ask you to list a trade I could have made for melo that would have allowed me to win 15 of the last 15, as that was the only way the trade could have been any better for me.

Melo is great, but hey...

Carmelo Anthony SF
Experience:  10
Championships:  0
Player of the Week:  1
Player of the Month:  0

He is obssesed (whatever its spelled) with Earl, he has Boykins as PG in all sim leagues, its just that, dont take it personal hehehehehe