Pick(s) For A Starting C

[CelticsGM]

Actually I believe there is exactly ONE prototypical franchise player in this league: Dirk. Nobody else is even close.

With him then Sonics had one title and one finals appearance. Without him the playoffs were a distant memory ...

[MavsGM]

Is Tim Duncan a franchise player....I don't recall him leading anyone to a title.

T-Mac?

Kobe?

Garnett?

Yao?

Dwight Howard?

So maybe I don't understand the definition of a franchise player.  Could someone list the franchise players?

Ok, I can help you out on this one. Here are players that everyone refers to when they talk about franchise players:
Brand, Gordon, Maggette, Chandler, Kwame, Ward, Prince, Perry,...


   

No wonder you guys are so good.

[KingsGM-old]

No. All of the players i listed (and there are some more, Kirilenko for instance who led his team to back to back title) are definitions of franchise players. Supertars.

Off course, superstar alone won't win a title for you. MJ didn't win 6 titles alone, Magic didn't, Kobe can't without Shaq etc. Franchise player can turn a poor team into a respectable one. With little help he can maybe lead you to the second rn of the playoffs. For something more you need to get him some serious help. Another superstar at diferent position is off course ideal (altough i think 1 superstar, 1 star and bunch of good role, hard working players is the best way to build a contender). That's where your managing skills comes.

Or to simplify things. Out of that Bods group pick 2 players you think are the best fit for your team. I'll pick 2 of mine group. Sorround both teams with similiar role players and who would win? I'm positive 9/10 team consisted of real time players.

[NetsGM]

Again, sorry Bods, none of these players qualifies as a franchise player ...

So is garnett a franchise player?  Shawn Marion?  

Sorry, I don't agree with your definition of Franchise player either.

Many of those players I listed are in the 25-26 year old range, and went to bad teams to start off with.  Holding them up to accomplishments TMac, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett (who all started out on playoff teams) never achieved is a bit ridiculous, no?

[HornetsGM]

I haven't done any homework on this, but it seems to me that the best fictional players came from the FBB generated drafts and not the FBCB drafts. For the most part the FBCB drafts have been wretched.

[CelticsGM]

So is garnett a franchise player?  Shawn Marion?  

Sorry, I don't agree with your definition of Franchise player either.

Many of those players I listed are in the 25-26 range, and went to bad teams to start off with.  Holding them up to accomplishments TMac, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett (who all started out on playoff teams) never achieved is a bit ridiculous, no?

Never achieved? I am talking bout making a team better and win, especially in the post season.

KG was to the playoffs 7 times in 9 seasons and won a couple of series. TD has been to some CFs, TMac as well, only Marion is debateable as his Hornets even underachieved while playing with Shaq.


So let's divide the guys you mentioned in 3 categories:
1. Borderline franchise player:
Max

2. Future studs but not there yet:
Barton O'Connell, John Tyler, Antone Berkowitz, Andre Stocker

3. Pretty good but franchise? Nah, not close ...
William Brice, Patrick Gatling, Vince Keogan, Antonio Lenard, Trevor Wells, Troy Havlicek, Mason Mercer, Nicklaus English

[NetsGM]

KG was to the playoffs 7 times in 9 seasons and won a couple of series

Gatling has been to the playoffs every year in the league on the same team.  Why is that classified as success when used with KG but not with Gatling?

Conference Finals?  How is that more success than English, who's won a championship?

While still on his rookie contract, Brice is averaging 20/10.  Averaged 20/9.5 the year before.  Has about a 5/1 assist to turnover ratio.  "Pretty good"?  English is "pretty good"?

Gatling dropped 30 ppg last year.  With A- defense.  Doesn't turn the ball over at all.  "Pretty good"?

Wow.  You've got stiff standards.

It's funny, these guys put up great stats with good defense, and you point to playoff record in the 4 years (or less) they've been in the league.  Other guys like Marion and TMac don't win sqaut and it's ok (getting to the conference finals 1 year in 9 attempts on a team that was a playoff team isn't exactly a ringing endorsement).

O'Connell isn't there yet?  Once again, still on his rookie contract (just finished his 3rd year), and he's putting up 27.2/10.1, shooting 50.5% (49% from 3 pt) and has a 5/1 assist to turnover.  That's absurd at 24 years of age.  Not there yet?

Is it his fault the 2nd best player on that team is a 33 year old Jamaal Magloire?

Some of the people you have in the "pretty good" is just flat out shocking to me.

I haven't done any homework on this, but it seems to me that the best fictional players came from the FBB generated drafts and not the FBCB drafts. For the most part the FBCB drafts have been wretched.

The previous two FBCB drafts were bad.  The other 2 I think have been good.  It's hit or miss, but overall I think it's producing a good amount of non-pg's compared to FBB.  The two FBB drafts prior to FBCB were pretty poor as well.

[CelticsGM]

OK, I agree to officially lift O'Connell to franchise player.

But just because someone puts up 25+ppg on 50% shooting he's no franchise player. Vince Keogan did that and the Cavs won nothing (apart from one playoff series, but that came against me). Replace Mr. No-D with some less-scoring, more defending SG and the Cavs might actually have won more.

Gatling missed the playoffs in 2011, and then took over the Wolves from declining KG. He's their star now but he has to prove he can take them to another level.

[NetsGM]

But just because someone puts up 25+ppg on 50% shooting he's no franchise player.

And my point is just because he's not winning doesn't mean he's not a franchise player either.  Sometimes, it's just that he's playing for a poor franchise.

[KingsGM-old]

Max

Aren't that Mike Bibby stats in his 3rd year? He's a franchise player too?

Patrick Gatling

Fine player. But with Garnett and Van Horn he should have done alot more. On paper, you can say he's in the Tmac category. But while Gatling strugles to pass the first rn playin along KG Tmac led his team to the WCF and was one game away from the Finals with Chris Webber & Brad Miller frontcourt! Not to mention i didn't have a single decent backup at that time as well.

Vince Keogan

No way.

Troy Havlicek

Isn't that a guy that was playin with Magloire & Shaq (yes, past his prime but still...) and the Suns were the worst team in the league?

Mason Mercer

No way. Already explained that.

Nicklaus English

Yes he won a title but let not fool ourselves. It was all Dirk. There are like 10 - 15 pg's around the league that would have won a ring along Dirk at that time.

[ClippersGM-old]

But just because someone puts up 25+ppg on 50% shooting he's no franchise player.

And my point is just because he's not winning doesn't mean he's not a franchise player either.  Sometimes, it's just that he's playing for a poor franchise.

In that case, where a franchise player is playing for a weak franchise, I have a solution. Trade them to my team and then we can finally see them get their well deserved championship.  

[KingsGM-old]

Geez..just finished watching "Coffe and cigarettes". What a TERRIBLE movie. I completely lost respect for Jim Jarmusch.

[CelticsGM]

Geez..just finished watching "Coffe and cigarettes". What a TERRIBLE movie. I completely lost respect for Jim Jarmusch.

Guys, this is where we end up when a GM posts "(Kings) picks(s) for a starting C" ...
 

[KingsGM-old]

Yeah really, will ANYONE give me a C for 2 first rn picks?

C'mon guys...you have a chance to get a franchise player with that pick!

[MagicGM]

loren woods?