Sim 7 Discussion

[CelticsGM]

...
but hey, if nobody wants the drafts, I'll leave them untouched.  But in 3-4 years, I'm sure I'll be saying I told you so.

Well, I'm probably not here long enough to really see the longterm dynamics of developing draft value, but I have a strong opinion, being the primary benefitiary of any changes.

   HANDS OFF !

I'll try to explain it in an example from another sim's draft (which a fellow GM told me about). These are the top prospects there:

Andrew Bogut(C)             B  C,  C+ B   B+ B
Marvin Williams(SG/SF)    B  B-  B-  B-  C+ A
Raymond Felton(PG)        B- C+ B+ B-  C   A
Andrea Bargnani(SF/PF)   B- A-  C,  C   B-  A

So after 2 or 3 seasons you have a couple of  A- A B+ A- B  B guys in this league and each year new ones come along. Any leverage is lost since only so many guys can be superstars scoring- and playingwise. You are then left with A- B+ scorers averaging 3.6 ppg (which is a joke !)

I know that it is more fun playing with better people, BUT
- first of all we are doing 2-months seasons anyway, so 3 seasons are just half a year, so its not like you have to wait until your kids are grown up to get a better team

- second I like a gameplay that reflects reality. There are no 3 superstars each year in the NBA. There are good guys (Meka, Ben, Dwight), decent guys (Luol, Smith, Childress) and guys who are some time away (da rest). But none of these are superstar. Not even Wade was after one season !

- third, I like the fact that I'm losing big time. No, i'm not a masochist, but I completely rebuilt a crap team and I don't think a team can be good within half a season. No one player can take a very bad team to high level, probably respectability but not to the top. That takes time and I'm prepared to wait (with the occasional shortcut of course, cause MY daughter grows up pretty fast ...)

So by leaving the gameplay - and draft list - untouched we also keep the balance active. If we switch to a newer version of FBB with a slightly different gameplay (6 divisions, 30 teams, an expansion draft - now would THAT be fun !!!) then the balance will re-establish itself within some time. But doing manual intervention seldom leads to a better environment.

Just my 2 cents  

[NetsGM]

Why does everyone think i'm talking about making super duper, hyper, ultra great superstars?

I'm just talking about maybe, maybe actually having some 20/10 (heck, I'd settle for 16/8) big men entering the league at some point.  Maybe even a SF who can defend.

Right now we're getting pg's who can't defend, and outside of English can't shoot.

[GoldenStateGM]

Well, I guess I just see that in the real NBA draft, the only swingmen in the last draft that were very good defensively are Iggy and Deng.
Actually,, the program seems to have too many of the current players that are good defenders (GRob B, Dirk A) (BTW...heavyreign mentioned this in a thread once, and said you could lower defensive ratings of draftees to even it out.  I would not recommend that either...)

I guess we will just have to wait and see how players develop.  I think think Hinkle may become a shutdown perimeter defender, as may Kundla.  This next draft, with so many of the top players with potential, should be very interesting come training camp.  One or two of the draftees might blow up, and that would eliminate the problem.

[RaptorsGM]

This so is damn weird, because Nets and I seem to be the only two people that want to see the draft get top-better.

And I'm the best team, and he's close.

[Keith]

I also think it could use altering in the future, maybe just sim it a couple times until an acceptable one comes up.  As long as the people being altered aren't being made unstoppable.

[NetsGM]

IMO the ones who have stockpiled young current (or first year draftees) are going to be set for the future.  Older teams, or teams relying on the young draft picks, will be seriously behind the 8 ball.  But I don't see the talent pool being replenished at all, and as the league progresses teams that got the young players now will have a distinct advantage.

[BucksGM]

Rebuilding isn't supposed to be easy or a one year thing.  

And besides, there are so many overrated NBA players, like Tractor Traylor with B/B+/B+ ratings for offense/defense/rebounding, that can be had every offseason for the MLE.

If anything needs tampering, it's the fact that any 7 foot clown with a C+/B-/B- in offense/defense/rebounding can average almost 10/10/1-2 blocks per game in 27 minutes.  Every team's got at least 2 of these, with mine being Zaza Pachulia and Jamal Sampson for god's sake.

[NetsGM]

Rebuilding isn't supposed to be easy or a one year thing.

Nor is it.  Look at the Hawks, Knicks and Celtics.  Or the Spurs before that.

And besides, there are so many overrated NBA players, like Tractor Traylor with B/B+/B+ ratings for offense/defense/rebounding, that can be had every offseason for the MLE.

When was the last MLE signing to make a significant contribute.

[SixersGM]

damn.. my team went 4-6

im just kidding

[MavsGM]

What's this?

[KingsGM-old]

Yeah, where the hell, and why did you find this one?


btw Speaking of the draft, i'm really dissapointed with Mchale, DrJ and Bird's development so far. Just my 2 cents.

[SpursGM-old]

btw Speaking of the draft, i'm really dissapointed with Mchale, DrJ and Bird's development so far. Just my 2 cents.

That's the whole thing that you haven't understood from the beginning...these players have real NBA names, attributes based on how Bods rates their rookie seasons, and NO GUARANTEE that they will ever develop into their real life counterparts.

[KingsGM-old]

Well, it's not my fault you're modest guy so you're satisfied with a 11/6 guy winning the ROY, but i want more.


Where is the next Yao Ming or Dwight Howard? A new Mcgrady or Pettit? The next Shaq? Ben Wallace or Emeka Okafor? Hoffa? The next Nowitzki? hawn Marion? That's right, nowhere. No wonder we don't have a rivarlies any more.

But nvm, that's just me. I love talents.

[NetsGM]

you've got to be kidding me.  these drafts have been absolutely stacked.

[KingsGM-old]

I wouldn't use the word stacked, but where they better? Sure they were. Definite improvement over ficitional ones we had couple of years ago. But still, as i said, there are numerous players who were supposed to be a diference makers, but i'm pretty dissapointed with them now. DrJ a 10ppg guy in his 3rd year? Mchale didn't improve much since his rookie year, Larry Bird, of all the people, is a total dissapointment as far as i'm concerned. 17ppg in his 4th year? That's a disgrace. The guy is a top 5 of all time. 28/10/6 in his 5th year in real time. I know you'll say this isn't supposed to be a replica or something like that, but if such all time greats like Bird or Erving won't live up to their expectations, then they shouldn't even be in the draft. I find somehow disrespectfull to make guy like Bird a 17ppg player. And it makes the entire rebuilding proces kinda a lame and stupid. We can't see the players, we can't trust their potential, we can't count on their names and achivements in real life, we, pretty much can't do anything besides beliving in luck. And that, is not the case in real NBA IMO.