thanks for the correction Hawks.

2019    181    Timberwolves    Sign SG Patrick Gatling for $193,661,016 over 7 years.

whoa, I didn't even offer this!  I offered 3 years @ max.  Either I did something wrong, or it was entered in wrong, but in my bid history it says 3 years max.   

To Min:
210 gm bucks

To Phx:
2019 Min 1st round pick

i accept.

I wanted out of this draft since there was really only one guy that I had some interest in and I didn't like the odds of him falling to 25.  I get a few bank dollars, which was the best offer.  And also, I save some precious 2020 cap space in the deal in case Gatling jumps ship on me and the Wolves have to rebuild.

Wolves Said:

well, its also you that made a bunch of draft files if I am not mistaken so you know several years worth of true potentials.  correct me if i'm wrong.

Pistons Said:

I would classify that as an assumption, heck, that's borderline an accusation.  It's certainly trying to paint the picture of having an advantage.

What you quoted me as saying is far from an assumption.  I said "if I am not mistaken..." and "...correct me if I'm wrong".  I asked for clarification twice in those two sentences.  I don't know what more you want.  I tried to be as respectful as possible, and specifically made sure not to make assumptions about things that I knew nothing about.

[within 30 minutes]

what bothers me are the assumptions he's made and that he knows how the league is run.  It also bothers me that he brought this up AFTER the draft had started, and not beforehand.  I think that I have shown that I will spend countless hours making improvements for the league.  On the request last night, I did so right away.  I changed the entire way true potentials are found within 30 minutes. 

Name one assumption that I have based an argument upon.  I do know how the league is run, you have been very open about explaining how it is run.  It is a fact that GMs in the past have asked you for true potential numbers, you have looked at that number, and relayed it to that GM.  Therefore, you also know this number.  That is another fact.  Please, correct me where I'm wrong  That has been the process of revealing true potential up until now, and this knowledge cannot be magically erased from your head.  It's there.

He's had plenty of time to complain about it, doing so now annoys me.

I never once complained about anything in this league.  Generally speaking I don't complain about things.  It is not my place as a newcomer to this league to complain about rules of a league that were already in place when I joined.  The only thing that changed since I joined is that you changed from commish to GM.  And to me having a GM with extra knowledge is not something that I like.  Therefore, I respectfully sent my resignation to the new commish effective whenever he could find a replacement.  I think the way I went about resigning was about as good as it gets.  Nowhere did I complain about anything.  I simply stated my reason for leaving.

Like I said, the assumptions also annoy me.  When I make the draft file, I do not view the true potential of every player that is created.  CelticsGM and I have gone to pretty good lengths to make a system that does not give us that advantage.  And the fact that he's criticizing an advantage that he thinks I gain, but that I don't, pisses me off.

We already know that you do not view true potentials when you create a draft file.  You have made that clear.  What is also clear is that you get that information revealed to you when other GMs asked for it in the past. You do have an advantage.  That is a fact.

It's also nice to know that you are "slightly concerned with making this a fair environment".  I hope that is a joke... for the sake of other GMs in this league.  I know that for me fairness is the first priority.

That would be a slight sense of sarcasm.  I don't think i would quit a league, and spending numerous hours a week still working on it, if I wasn't more than *slightly* concerned with its integrity.  Only a newcomer would make a statement like that.

it is extremely difficult to decipher sarcasm from serious comments but I actually did pick up on that since the part you quoted alludes to the fact that I figured it was a joke.  But of course I couldn't be sure because you actually did implement a rule (revealing true potentials) which actually does interfere with the integrity of the league.  That is a fact.

I don't get an advantage by making the draft files.  And now I've removed any advantage by the buying of true potential systems.  Frankly,considering the work put in, I find his post insulting.

funny you should talk about insults when you just finished calling me insane and paranoid a few posts back.  But that aside, you don't get an advantage by creating a draft file.  Again, nobody disputes that. 

And now I've removed any advantage by the buying of true potential systems.

You just finished calling me paranoid and insane for suggesting that you gain an advantage, and then so soon after you admit that the advantage did in fact exist.  That is quite amusing to me.


P.S. Your league is great, and as far as I can tell you have 27 other GMs who think it is great too.  There is no need to argue against the facts that I have outlined.  The correct answer can be found on the Nuggets previous post.

Cheers.

Pick #25 is available for cash now.  PM me with any offers.

I don't know if I should be taking part in polls like this since I I have one foot out the door, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

I voted yes.  I think the cost should be directly related to the contract value.  I.E.

$20.2M = $2020 cost
$1.5M = $150 cost

I think this would be the fairest way to do things.  Very straightforward too which is good.

Also, instead of grandfathering it in (which is a fine idea itself) I would personally try to implement it the sooner the better.  I'd give 2-3 years notice and then the year it is being implemented give each team one "amnesty clause" that it could use to get out of one bad long-term contract.  This would minimize the chances that a team's long term plan's would be hindered by this rule change.  Grandfathering is just as good, but takes longer and is more complicated to administer.

It's a situation that you just have to accept. If the commish gets a slight advantage from it, well good for him.

It's a catch-22 in that you can't have it both ways. And IMO, it's far more beneficial to the league to be able to check true potentials, even if that means the commish gets to see it too.

exactly.  It is your personal preference that the commish having extra knowledge is outweighed by the positives of the true potential revealing feature.  I personally don't like the true potential being revealed, and especially don't like that the commish has a  lot more knowledge that the rest of the GMs.  Neither opinion is right or wrong, it is just each person's personal preference.

Practically every commish edits draft files before they're posted.  Otherwise you get the worst drafts imaginable.  We ran it that way for a while, and nobody liked it.

Like I said a few posts earlier, that's at the discretion of the league/commish.  We use computer generated draft files in RBSL and they are just fine.  And aside from good PGs being too plentiful, they are fine.

And if you think I remember the potential of a single player from 2014, you're insane.

Once again someone has made a random thought and pinned it on me.  No, I never said or implied that, and I certainly don't think that.  I have no idea how good your memory is and exactly how far back you can remember player ratings.

But honestly, if you're that paranoid, then I'm glad you're leaving.  I consider myself slightly concerned with making this a fair environment.  After all, I gave up a team for it to be so.  If you're going to be that paranoid, then you're just going to be a pain in the ass the first time HawksGM has an even minuscule amount of success.

I'm not sure if you know what paranoid means, but it certainly doesn't apply to me.  Go back in my posts and find one statement that I made which was not factually correct about this league.  Now, look again and try really hard to twist some of words to make it seem that way.  Still nothing?

It's also nice to know that you are "slightly concerned with making this a fair environment".  I hope that is a joke... for the sake of other GMs in this league.  I know that for me fairness is the first priority.

As far as your last comment, it is once again completely unfounded.  NuggetsGM (aka RBSL Commish) has won 3 championships and also drafted the best prospect our league had ever seen at the time.  I believe that I, and most other sane, non-paranoid GMs simply congratulated him on a job well done in each instance because he deserved it.

What you seem to fail to understand still is that I am making a rational decision based on facts (key point here, facts) to leave the league.  But if you want to play the role of jaded ex-lover than by all means go ahead.

You have an excellent league, but you should face the facts that there are flaws in it.  One flaw is that you have an advantage over other GMs.  Most GMs don't care, so instead of attempting to convince yourself and others that you don't have an advantage you should try to focus your energies on improving the league. 

If you think that the league is better overall despite this flaw (that's what most GMs here seem to think) then that is perfectly fine and reasonable.  For me personally, the league becomes needlessly unfair, which is something that I don't choose to deal with.

I dont get it, according to WolvesGM then, commish should be a guy without a team no ???? Of course commish has slight advantage knowing that fact, but its like that in every sim league, i just cant believe you quit because of that.

not in every sim league.  when i was commish of a sim league i never looked at any of the hidden attributes.  and as far as i know nuggetsgm on here who is the current commish of that league has never looked at a single true potential either.  so it is possible, its just at the discretion of the league/commish.

I also want to be clear about this.  Nobody other than HawksGM has the save file.  I have the end of year (2018) file from when I was commish, but he's the only one that has new ones.  None of the "Mods" have save files.  We don't all go around sending it to each other. 

In fact, the "mods" don't really do anything, but that's another story.....

Actually, for the most part, we don't have mods.  HornetsGM is mod because he was my co-commish, and Celtics is mod because he filled in for me when I was on vacation (much appreciated)

well, its also you that made a bunch of draft files if I am not mistaken so you know several years worth of true potentials.  correct me if i'm wrong.

ahem, i think this is getting a little overboard.

The commish/simmer usually does get true pot information BEFORE the draft, when it's requested. So this will help him AT the draft, if he has a high pick, and that is about the only advantage. After one TC the pot changes, and after two TCs pretty much everyone can see if someone has a high pot or not. And since guys with (requested) high pot usually are not exactly on the trade wire a lot, i don't really see much of an advantage.

I know it is POSSIBLE to cheat but it's pretty much unnecessary ...

A commish having a high pick is not the only advantage.  True potential changes in a fairly predictable pattern in FBB with the player losing approximately 7 true potential per season.  If a player goes into the league with 100 potential, after 4 seasons I can make an educated guess that he will have slightly under 80 true potential left. 

Also, after 2 TCs it is far from easy to figure out what a players true potential is.  You certainly have a better idea, but far from a clear picture.  It is not uncommon for a player to go up a few ratings one season, and then not go up at all for a couple of seasons in a row.

And for a 3rd time, it has nothing to do with cheating.  The commish has extra information which the GMs do not have.  This is not him cheating, this is just a fact; which I do not like.


As far as dbodner's new potential revealing system... that is a great addition to the league.  It will definitely eliminate this as an issue over time, but unfortunately it doesn't erase what the simmers already know, so for me it doesn't change anything right now.

it has nothing to do with a trust issue at all.  and yes i have used the program quite alot, so I know all about it.  But the fact is that every request that is made becomes one more guy that you know their true potential.  And in my mind, its impossible to just 'forget' this information once you see it.  So in a given draft class you probably get to see a lot of the top prospects' true potential.  Again, I'm not suggesting that you like seeing the info, but its just the nature of the job as commish. 

And like I mentioned before, I also realize that I'm likely one of very few who actually care about this... but that's the way she goes.

I decided to step down due to the same reasons that I don't take a team with DBSL.  It just bothers me too much that the commish and/or mods see the true potentials of the players.  I didn't mind it when the commish (dbodner) didn't have a team in the league, but that one part of the league, which probably seems like a minor thing to most people, is the dealbreaker for me when deciding what league to be a part of.

It was actually a tough decision, since this league is well run, and has a great group of GMs who seem to be with it for the long-haul, but like I said, the revealing of true potentials is a dealbreaker for me.

Anyway, like I already mentioned to the commish, I will stick around and be active for as long as it takes to find a replacement, so the Wolves don't get ruined by the CPU.

I just want to say thanks to everyone, especially the mods/commish(es) who do all the hard work to keep a league of this caliber running so smoothly. 

pick #25 for a future 1st.  PM me with any offers.