SSBA

Well, I wasn't screwing around. To be processed after end season.

The New Jersey Nets trade:
Bailey Tobey
Richard Milner

to the Phoenix Suns for:
Terry Catledge
Bill Wennington - Canadian 
Philly 76ers 2025 First Round Pick
Jersey Nets 2027 First Round Pick
Beantown Celts 2027 First Round Pick
Cleveland Cavs 2027 First Round Pick
5mil TPE applied to this side, plus Suns cap space, makes trade work in the checker.

Nets contribute $250 towards TPE
Suns contribute $150 towards TPE

Nets aren't done yet - I hope. Obviously a very risky move that could end up terrible, but good lord we have stunk in the playoffs so enough is enough.

Suns Agree,

Big move, Bailey and Milner make me alot better instantly, and i still have a top 6 pick to add more talent. my original plan was to take 2 studs in the draft and pray to land one of the Big FA's, but alas, this is a better route, and more sure. Good luck to The Nets,hope they land the top pick!

Thanks, a fun negotiation. Hope it works well. I now have two lotto picks, and nine firsts currently in my possession, so I don't feel like I'm done yet. I'm very well positioned for next off-season at least, and hope to get a few more things done between now and tomorrow. I do like to keep active, and these past couple of days have been more fun than I've had in here for awhile - so even if everything goes to pot, at least I have that.

Good luck with your new stars, Suns.

Wow.  Brutal trade for the Nets, IMO. 

Getting the sixers pick is nice, but while this draft is deep, I can't see more than 1 potential franchise player.  That would have been solid return for one of the stars.  But when you're trading TWO all-league cailber players, if you don't get back some established talent, you've failed IMO.  Those last 3 picks might look nice, but it's possible two of them are outside of the lotto, and the odds of getting back a franchise player this year are slim.  That's putting a LOT of pressure on 3 picks that are 3 years down the line...

BTW, I'm extremely happy that those two didn't end up in New Orleans or Indiana, which I had nightmares of (particularly with the Hornets).

lol, I would never trade anyone of consequence to either of those teams.

I dont know if the trade is brutal - but I do know it is brutally risky. It really depends on how my other, concurrent discussions end up. IMO, the onus isn't really on who i select with those future picks, but how I use the other picks to help me achieve what I hope to achieve.

I don't know.  I probably undervalue picks, but I don't like to rely on them to turn around my franchise.  I tend to trade for picks on draft day, when I know who will be available.  I don't like trading for picks 3 years down the line, unless it's a low risk/high reward type of deal.  Right now you're relying on them being good, and the only one you can safely guess will be good is your own.

I don't think its a good trade for both these teams..

For the Nets

They traded two guys who were franchise players, prior with their stint with the Nets. Two guys who are one of the elite players at their respective position. These kind of players like Bailey and Milner, don't come very often in this league.

At first glance, I thought that these two players are on the verge of retiring, thats why the Nets give up for them with this kind of package. But Bailey is just 30 years old while Milner is just 33. And both guys haven't shown any signs of slowing down.

Another reason why I don't like this trade for the Nets is because I don't think that he would ever acquire a player close to half of the talent he gave up for both these guys. The sixers pick looks tempting, but if you look at the draft pool this year. There is no clear head over shoulder player in the draft. And the other 1st rounders, don't look like lotto material to me.

For the Suns

Ok, you acquired two all-star players. But you don't have the right supporting cast to put yourself into an elite team in the league yet. Both these guys are aging, and I don't think you have enough assets and time to build around Milner and Bailey. What direction does this trade do to your team? Remember that Milner and Bailey, were in a way better environment with the Nets, but still it didn't get them anywhere in the play-offs.

Overall
Talent wise, undoubtedly, the Suns won the trade. With trading overrated (IMO) 1st rounders for two all-stars.

But for the nets, atleast this trade gave them direction. Although, I don't think that they should have blown their team after a 59 win season and with their players ready for serious play-off competition. Sorry, but IMO,It would take atleast 3-5 seasons for the nets, to assemble this kind of team again. With constant trial and error and constant frustrations with lotto picks. Im guessing that we will both see each other frequently in the next couple of drafts. With this trade, they acquired cap flexibility and a top 3 pick in the draft. Although, I thought that they could have acquired a better "youth" package than what the suns offered.

Great steal for the suns.

Safe to predict that none of the players or picks the Nets receive will ever come close to Milner or Tobes production, let alone franchise player status. Just not good/high enough for that.

Looks pretty much like some panic move (from a team that dominated the league early this season before trading for cancer Natt)

I would have to agree that I would have found that to be a good trade for one of the stars, but not for two. I think Nets worked too quickly out of anger and sold himself short.

:lol: of course i tried to get one but couldn?t find a good enough package. i am sure dwight would have rejuvinated by playing with a key like millner.

That, and you never made an offer on Milner. :lol:

Alot of interesting comments here. And I am happy to, and will, reply to them all.

Curiously, none made the suggestion that "it could work out if...." things come together for the Nets, or "I suspect Nets has a plan..." Obviously, I have the benefit of hindsight here where the commentors do not - knowing the intricacies of all the discussions and offers I have received - not just now, but over the past season. The one thing that really strikes me here, is that I would think that I've had enough success here to at least warrant that suspicion from one guy  :P:

In any event, on to addressing the criticisms....

Perhaps I moved too quickly and sold myself short as Nuggets suggested.

My history with this blend of players has been that they start off hot in the regular season, begin to fade and end up top five or so - again - in the regular season, and then whimper out in the playoffs. Not a new trend. I saw an opportunity to take my frustration and explore stripping the whole team right down immediately. I had two stars in Milner and Tobey with big tickets. A very good complimentary player in Natt with a big ticket. A nice complimentary player on a modest ticket. I looked at the draft, I looked at the free agent possibles and speculated that I might have a good chance at replacing the two stars through these avenues. Which is what I did. I have a good shot at one through the draft, and a good shot at two through free agency.

Since we're near the end of the season, time is obviously of the essence, and options are limited. I was able to use my assets to get one pick that should replace one star, a second pick that might - or at least help replace one. I had to target teams with cap space and convince them my offers were better than a crack at Hakeem Olajuwon. In the end, my perspective was that a crack at the top pick and Hakeem (and others) was worth Bailey and Milner, who I wasn't winning meaningful games with anyway. So, I don't think I worked too quickly - I think I worked as quickly as I needed to position myself how I wanted to be positioned.

Was it a brutal return, as Pistons suggested.

On it's own, yes, I suppose it could be. But again, in the context of my overall plan, I don't think so at all. I had an option to trade each seperately for different packages, all that I weighed pretty carefully. The options available to me did not guarantee the yield and flexibility I wanted - legitimate cracks at premium talent. And I know this from fielding offers on both guys for over a season or longer. No one offered a star for either (one, maybe two teams came close on one player each) but I would have been locked in the same way I was - without options moving forward. In every case, the options I ended up with are better than what I was offered.

And of course, the 2027 picks were not acquired under the expectation that they would be what secures me the premium talent - I am very aware of this and curious that other GMs think I'm not - but that they afford me the flexibility to make other moves.

On Celtics comments that mostly echo Pistons and Nuggets comments.

Read above.

As to Sixers comment that it will take 3-5 years to turn this ship around...and...there could have been a better package of youth.

On the first point: 3-5 years, maybe, but I hope not. I have the cap space and high picks I wanted to get the premium talent that I need to turn it around quickly. It's very risky, as I have conceded all along, yes, but my win rating is as high as any other team with cap space, so I thought now was the time to strike with some real young studs on the market. Next off-season, I'm in the same position too: if I end up without premium FA talent this year (which is perfectly possible), I should have a strong pick and even more cap flexibility next year.

Better package of youth? I was offered two nice young players from all the teams in the league in seperate deals, and would still have been hamstrung cap-wise - but neither was so good that they are better than the FA's available or significantly better than the worst case draft scenario for me with the Sixers pick. Everyone had a chance to offer, and this was the best course presented to me. And some of the offers were downright putrid.

In any event, there are risks in this game and all kindsa things that could happen. There have been enough that have kept me from winning games that matter, that I wanted to start over - and I'm not afraid to give it a go. Thanks to all the teams that made offers, at the very least it's been the most fun I've had in here since two drafts ago.

 :lol:

sorry guys we have a problem with this trade. i am sure it should work but FBB is telling me no way. maybe it is because suns resigned 3 guys and now would need to add about 2mill sal to make it work.
please try to work it out quick or tell me a work around. the number 1 draft pick is involved in this trade :-(

We didn't think of the Suns resignings when calculating his cap space prior to agreeing to the trade.

Via PM, Suns offered to add Ken Norman to the deal which should make it work. Nets agree to this - though it tightens up my cap space some.

Suns can post to confirm his agreement.

I agree on the modification as well

FTR, Suns is a good dude to work with. Again, good luck - I hope things really work out for you.