SSBA

The WolvesGM will be re-signing upon the league finding a replacement.  Any of you who have friend, email is sawyersl24@yahoo.com.  Please, only people who have the time to put some effort into the league.  I would like to thank the WolvesGM for his efforts and sticking with it until we find a replacement.

Dang. Didnt see that one coming, whats up with that Wolves?

KG retired.

so that's the end of an aera, and i guess he wants to follow his true veteran ...
;-)

I decided to step down due to the same reasons that I don't take a team with DBSL.  It just bothers me too much that the commish and/or mods see the true potentials of the players.  I didn't mind it when the commish (dbodner) didn't have a team in the league, but that one part of the league, which probably seems like a minor thing to most people, is the dealbreaker for me when deciding what league to be a part of.

It was actually a tough decision, since this league is well run, and has a great group of GMs who seem to be with it for the long-haul, but like I said, the revealing of true potentials is a dealbreaker for me.

Anyway, like I already mentioned to the commish, I will stick around and be active for as long as it takes to find a replacement, so the Wolves don't get ruined by the CPU.

I just want to say thanks to everyone, especially the mods/commish(es) who do all the hard work to keep a league of this caliber running so smoothly.  :tup:

We only see the real potentials when people request them.  Not sure if you ever used FBB, but you can only see it if you go looking for it.  I guess it's just a trusting your commish type of thing.  Derek was so successful when he was commish but all of us trusted that he wasn't cheating.  It was his decision to give up the Nets and he wasn't really pressured into doing that.  I hope that all the GM's will have the same kind of trust for me.  It actually comes at a bad time for me to step in because my team is the most successful it has been since the SSBA was created and I hope if I make the playoffs the GM's don't think that I am cheating, because I like the competitive nature of this league and I wouldn't do anything to break the integrity.  That being said, there is no way around us seeing potentials unless we cut that option out of our league, but with it being such a popular option for our GM's, I don't see that happening.  Althougth Derek and I have talked about chaning a few things as far as the team banks go, but we will let that be known when it is time.

Pure MODS can definitely NOT see any true pot.
You need the league file for that. And as the Hawks told, you need to deliberately look for it in the league file, you can't accidentially find out about it.

He is well versed in sim leagues and FBB, so its not a matter of convincing him otherwise. He used to commish the league I commish currently. I have the same feelings regarding potential as he does, but I just play anyways :bounce:

it has nothing to do with a trust issue at all.  and yes i have used the program quite alot, so I know all about it.  But the fact is that every request that is made becomes one more guy that you know their true potential.  And in my mind, its impossible to just 'forget' this information once you see it.  So in a given draft class you probably get to see a lot of the top prospects' true potential.  Again, I'm not suggesting that you like seeing the info, but its just the nature of the job as commish. 

And like I mentioned before, I also realize that I'm likely one of very few who actually care about this... but that's the way she goes.

ahem, i think this is getting a little overboard.

The commish/simmer usually does get true pot information BEFORE the draft, when it's requested. So this will help him AT the draft, if he has a high pick, and that is about the only advantage. After one TC the pot changes, and after two TCs pretty much everyone can see if someone has a high pot or not. And since guys with (requested) high pot usually are not exactly on the trade wire a lot, i don't really see much of an advantage.

I know it is POSSIBLE to cheat but it's pretty much unnecessary ...

Actually, this is going to be changing next year.  After I create the draft file this year, I'm going to export it to a database.  Next year, you're going to be able to click a button, get the true potential of a player, and also have the $ automatically deducted from your bank.

I'm not doing this because of HawksGM and a fear of cheating (if a commish wants to cheat, the opportunity is ALWAYS there, regardless of true potentials), but because of situations like the time leading up to the first few days of the draft, where being able to get the pot promptly and not have to wait for a commish to get home from work can greatly help.

It would have been done for this year, but I had to put a considerable amount of time for making tools for the new commish.

So is Wolves staying now?  :lmao:

Wow, that is a great system bods, I like the sounds of that.

Ask and you shall receive:
http://forums.ssbabasketball.com/ssba_pages/viewdraftees.php

(It's also linked to on the main "GM Actions" page.

It's a little bare-bones, but it'll get the job done.  If you don't have enough $ in the bank, it won't show you.  If you do, it will deduct the $, then show you the potential, and show you your new balance.

Let me know if there are any problems.  It's got live data in it, so it can be used for the rest of the draft.

A commish having a high pick is not the only advantage.  True potential changes in a fairly predictable pattern in FBB with the player losing approximately 7 true potential per season.  If a player goes into the league with 100 potential, after 4 seasons I can make an educated guess that he will have slightly under 80 true potential left. 

Also, after 2 TCs it is far from easy to figure out what a players true potential is.  You certainly have a better idea, but far from a clear picture.  It is not uncommon for a player to go up a few ratings one season, and then not go up at all for a couple of seasons in a row.

And for a 3rd time, it has nothing to do with cheating.  The commish has extra information which the GMs do not have.  This is not him cheating, this is just a fact; which I do not like.


As far as dbodner's new potential revealing system... that is a great addition to the league.  It will definitely eliminate this as an issue over time, but unfortunately it doesn't erase what the simmers already know, so for me it doesn't change anything right now.

So you're quitting over HawksGM knowing the true potential of roughly 7 people (that's all the unique people who have been requested.

Wow.  Ok.

I also want to be clear about this.  Nobody other than HawksGM has the save file.  I have the end of year (2018) file from when I was commish, but he's the only one that has new ones.  None of the "Mods" have save files.  We don't all go around sending it to each other. 

In fact, the "mods" don't really do anything, but that's another story..... ;)

Actually, for the most part, we don't have mods.  HornetsGM is mod because he was my co-commish, and Celtics is mod because he filled in for me when I was on vacation (much appreciated)

I dont get it, according to WolvesGM then, commish should be a guy without a team no ???? Of course commish has slight advantage knowing that fact, but its like that in every sim league, i just cant believe you quit because of that.

well, its also you that made a bunch of draft files if I am not mistaken so you know several years worth of true potentials.  correct me if i'm wrong.

not in every sim league.  when i was commish of a sim league i never looked at any of the hidden attributes.  and as far as i know nuggetsgm on here who is the current commish of that league has never looked at a single true potential either.  so it is possible, its just at the discretion of the league/commish.

Practically every commish edits draft files before they're posted.  Otherwise you get the worst drafts imaginable.  We ran it that way for a while, and nobody liked it.

And if you think I remember the potential of a single player from 2014, you're insane.

But honestly, if you're that paranoid, then I'm glad you're leaving.  I consider myself slightly concerned with making this a fair environment.  After all, I gave up a team for it to be so.  If you're going to be that paranoid, then you're just going to be a pain in the ass the first time HawksGM has an even minuscule amount of success.

It's a situation that you just have to accept. If the commish gets a slight advantage from it, well good for him.

It's a catch-22 in that you can't have it both ways. And IMO, it's far more beneficial to the league to be able to check true potentials, even if that means the commish gets to see it too.

As i said;

FREE POTENTIAL FOR EVERYONE.

i can only speak for myself, but I have no idea about true pot for my own league, despite creating the draft file. I use the RANDOM() function in excel and that creates a true pot number in the second the file is exported to .txt format (which can be imported into FBB).

and bods himself stated numerous times he's doing it in a similar way ...

That's probably the worst idea ever...

That would totally take any random element out of the league. It would make 3/4's of the league's players untradeable.

I like the way it is now, and I think it is a decent replica of the real league in that for an NBA Gm, the more money they spend scouting a player, the better idea they will have of their potential.

Yup.

I make the draft file in FBB.  Edit current draftees, change name, height, size, weight, college, etc.  To generate attributes, I then enter in their first year stats.  Modify the attributes a little bit (i.e. because 3 pointers were so rare back then, to try to make it more realistic and not have every pg a C- outside shot).  When I'm finished, I export the draft to a comma separated file.

Now, the draft file is finished.  The only thing that needs to be done is potentials randomized.  I open up the csv in excel, then in the true pot column run:
=INT(RAND()*100)
and put that in the entire column.  Save the file, and re-import it back in the league.

I do not view each players true potential as I'm generating the attributes.

No, i don't think so. You see people trading for average players all the time and most of the guys are keepin their top picks anyway. I don't see this having any effect as far as trading is concerned, no way.


That's just absurd;

1) The majority of teams are spending almost the same money for scouting, from Dallas to Boston. Why? Because they're loaded with cash. Scouting is the major foundation in building a good team, you think there are teams who are being economical when it comes to that? Heck, there are scouts from the Bucks, Clippers, Sixers, Spurs, you name it, all over Europe.

2) Any scout from any team in NBA can buy himself a ticket for a high school or college game. All he needs to is to sit down in the front row and watch the kid play. Can we do that here? No.

Ok, we're not going to have an argument on this.  Here's what I'll say:
In the NBA, teams make wrong evaluations on players ALL THE TIME.  Michael Olowokandi for example.  Kwame Brown.  It's a staple of the NBA draft.  This has nothing to do with the amount of $ you spend, that's true.  It has to do with your skill.

The best way to replicate that here, however, is to have some randomness in it.  And randomness does occur in the NBA.  Whether it be work ethic not there, injuries, or players dogging it after they get the payday.  There are things you cannot predict.

So, the best way to get a level of randomness is the true/scouted pot.  And we mitigate that pretty well by allowing you to see the true pot of a select few with your $.

If we have no randomness, then there's not enough to "evaluate" for mistakes to be made.  Sure, you don't know EVERYTHING (jumping attributes, strength, quickness, etc), but you know enough not to pick a bust.  And that's not realistic in the NBA.

Now, this is not the thread for that discussion, so do not post on it anymore.

Like I said a few posts earlier, that's at the discretion of the league/commish.  We use computer generated draft files in RBSL and they are just fine.  And aside from good PGs being too plentiful, they are fine.


Once again someone has made a random thought and pinned it on me.  No, I never said or implied that, and I certainly don't think that.  I have no idea how good your memory is and exactly how far back you can remember player ratings.


I'm not sure if you know what paranoid means, but it certainly doesn't apply to me.  Go back in my posts and find one statement that I made which was not factually correct about this league.  Now, look again and try really hard to twist some of words to make it seem that way.  Still nothing?

It's also nice to know that you are "slightly concerned with making this a fair environment".  I hope that is a joke... for the sake of other GMs in this league.  I know that for me fairness is the first priority.

As far as your last comment, it is once again completely unfounded.  NuggetsGM (aka RBSL Commish) has won 3 championships and also drafted the best prospect our league had ever seen at the time.  I believe that I, and most other sane, non-paranoid GMs simply congratulated him on a job well done in each instance because he deserved it.

What you seem to fail to understand still is that I am making a rational decision based on facts (key point here, facts) to leave the league.  But if you want to play the role of jaded ex-lover than by all means go ahead.

You have an excellent league, but you should face the facts that there are flaws in it.  One flaw is that you have an advantage over other GMs.  Most GMs don't care, so instead of attempting to convince yourself and others that you don't have an advantage you should try to focus your energies on improving the league. 

If you think that the league is better overall despite this flaw (that's what most GMs here seem to think) then that is perfectly fine and reasonable.  For me personally, the league becomes needlessly unfair, which is something that I don't choose to deal with.

exactly.  It is your personal preference that the commish having extra knowledge is outweighed by the positives of the true potential revealing feature.  I personally don't like the true potential being revealed, and especially don't like that the commish has a  lot more knowledge that the rest of the GMs.  Neither opinion is right or wrong, it is just each person's personal preference.

I hope that bolded part clears things up for everyone else who thought Wolves trying to attack or complain. He has stated multiple times it is only his personal opinion. I think the conversation is good to be over now. Its not really a big deal at all.

what bothers me are the assumptions he's made and that he knows how the league is run.  It also bothers me that he brought this up AFTER the draft had started, and not beforehand.  I think that I have shown that I will spend countless hours making improvements for the league.  On the request last night, I did so right away.  I changed the entire way true potentials are found within 30 minutes.  It's not that I don't think the league has flaws.  I'm more than willing to accept them.  We've made multiple changes from the urges of GM's, not commish's.  it's the way he brought it up that annoys me.

Like I said, the assumptions also annoy me.  When I make the draft file, I do not view the true potential of every player that is created.  CelticsGM and I have gone to pretty good lengths to make a system that does not give us that advantage.  And the fact that he's criticizing an advantage that he thinks I gain, but that I don't, pisses me off.


That would be a slight sense of sarcasm.  The comment was made tongue in cheek.  I don't think i would quit a league, and spending numerous hours a week still working on it, if I wasn't more than *slightly* concerned with its integrity.  Only a newcomer would make a statement like that.

I don't get an advantage by making the draft files.  And now I've removed any advantage by the buying of true potential systems.  Frankly,considering the work put in, I find his post insulting.

Name one assumption that I have based an argument upon.  I do know how the league is run, you have been very open about explaining how it is run.  It is a fact that GMs in the past have asked you for true potential numbers, you have looked at that number, and relayed it to that GM.  Therefore, you also know this number.  That is another fact.  Please, correct me where I'm wrong  That has been the process of revealing true potential up until now, and this knowledge cannot be magically erased from your head.  It's there.


I never once complained about anything in this league.  Generally speaking I don't complain about things.  It is not my place as a newcomer to this league to complain about rules of a league that were already in place when I joined.  The only thing that changed since I joined is that you changed from commish to GM.  And to me having a GM with extra knowledge is not something that I like.  Therefore, I respectfully sent my resignation to the new commish effective whenever he could find a replacement.  I think the way I went about resigning was about as good as it gets.  Nowhere did I complain about anything.  I simply stated my reason for leaving.




We already know that you do not view true potentials when you create a draft file.  You have made that clear.  What is also clear is that you get that information revealed to you when other GMs asked for it in the past. You do have an advantage.  That is a fact.


it is extremely difficult to decipher sarcasm from serious comments but I actually did pick up on that since the part you quoted alludes to the fact that I figured it was a joke.  But of course I couldn't be sure because you actually did implement a rule (revealing true potentials) which actually does interfere with the integrity of the league.  That is a fact.



funny you should talk about insults when you just finished calling me insane and paranoid a few posts back.  But that aside, you don't get an advantage by creating a draft file.  Again, nobody disputes that. 


You just finished calling me paranoid and insane for suggesting that you gain an advantage, and then so soon after you admit that the advantage did in fact exist.  That is quite amusing to me.


P.S. Your league is great, and as far as I can tell you have 27 other GMs who think it is great too.  There is no need to argue against the facts that I have outlined.  The correct answer can be found on the Nuggets previous post.

Cheers.

You said:


I would classify that as an assumption, heck, that's borderline an accusation.  It's certainly trying to paint the picture of having an advantage.


I wasn't calling you insane.
I said you're insane if you think I can remember the true potential of players from the 2014 draft.  The point of that statement was not to call you insane, but to say there's no way I can remember something like that. That's far different than me directly calling you insane.  It's a figure of speech.


I never said it wasn't an advantage.  I argued creating the draft files wasn't an advantage gained (and explained the process).  But I think my making the application to get the potentials was an admission it was a slight advantage to the commish, and I worked to fix it.


I don't.  In fact, this is the entire reason I'm upset.  I think the way you went about it stinks.  If you don't like something, say so.  Don't do so as you're on your way out, as a parting shot, swinging on your way out.

Meh.

I think you're overreacting Derek. He didnt make any swings until people swung at him first trying to argue the reasoning of him leaving. He has stated it is just a matter of personal opinion can we not just leave it at that? No drama = good for the league. Lots of drama = baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Of course I overreacted(ing).  But two things upset me:
1) The manner in which he brought it up (which, to me, was in and of itself overly dramatic)
2)

I'm just making my points.  And while they may be overly defensive, they are points I feel should be made.

This whole thing is getting blown out of proportion...I don't think SSBA is currently strong enough to handle a big controversy.

If WolvesGM wants to quit let him quit, and who gives a shit what his reasons are. He doesn't want to be in this league anymore, and that's that. Anything else is water under the bridge.

There's no controversy.  There's a back and forth argument.  But that's different than a controversy.

A controversy would be if I changed Rupp's ratings after I drafted him ;)

Oh I know, I just don't want to see this come down to a big debate. I've read the 3 pages and see no controvery, just a sibling (right?) debate.


And oh god...Shawn Rupp, the fictional man responsible for almost taking the legs right out from under SSBA. Does that Twan jackass still post on RealGM?

I think the word you were looking for was civil.  WolvesGM is not my brother.

Well.

Not this WolvesGM at least.  Hah.

Haha no I was looking for sibling, I couldn;t remember if your brother had quit or not.

Wolves Said:

Pistons Said:

What you quoted me as saying is far from an assumption.  I said "if I am not mistaken..." and "...correct me if I'm wrong".  I asked for clarification twice in those two sentences.  I don't know what more you want.  I tried to be as respectful as possible, and specifically made sure not to make assumptions about things that I knew nothing about.