SSBA

no significant changes changes for Blazers, but 2 great things.

Some craps dropped but they wont see minutes anyway, 2nd rounder 18 y.o Johnson improved +2.

only bad thing is Phelps lost B+ handles but B+/B/B/C/B- still looks great for SF.

Great thing were PG's...Telf is now A- defender and improved outside. Bird is now A handles.

LETS START !!!!!


McHale -1hn and reb, +1 df ...WHO CARES

Wright +1 df...nice rookie

Phelps...handles dropped but still looks great.

Buehler -1 hn

Johnson +1 inside and defense, very good for 18 y.o, could be something in few seasons.

Rodrigues -1 reb....after 4 seasons this 21 y.o at least showed me he is worthless, its his
last in Portland.

Telfair...im impressed how every TC he goes up lately, reaching his prime. Improved outside
and defense. We LOVE YOU TELF !!

Bird improved handles, now A !! and rebs, perfect sub for Telfair.

Others with no changes.

Before and After (click on the folders for HTML, click on the zip to download, and click on the .csv to open the CVS's):
http://files.ssbabasketball.com/files/2016/TC/

I implore everyone not to overreact and to see how the players actually play before jumping off a bridge :D

Awful.

But considering the age of my players, nothing unexpected.

i always make a copy in word of pre-tc team and paste post-tc, makes it easier.

Easier than seeing the entire rosters?

http://files.ssbabasketball.com/files/2016/TC/PreTC/

Or, even better yet, the CSV to compare/calculate directly?
http://files.ssbabasketball.com/files/2016/TC/2016_PreTC.csv

Hopefully that post about telling people not to overreact indicates a general drop for just about everyone.

Otherwise, all I can say is my TC was almost an unmitigated disaster:

Arenas dropped one in outside/inside.
Mehta dropped one in inside/defense (but I'm not concerned about the latter)
My backup big men dropped offense.
Baron dropped defense

Tobey Bailey increased in inside and dropped nothing, the lone bright spot.

This team won't be able to score to save its ass.

That's just terrible. What a mess.

for me yeah, old roster is up, new one below, huge monitor so i see both, and just type below the changes for thread.

Im used to do it like that so.... :)

Terrible TC, terrible.

Brand improved his handles by 1, didnt decline anywhere else.
Lundy didnt improve at all
Robey didnt improve at all
Lopez improved 1 stat
Magloire improved 1 stat
Evans improved 1 stat in defence
Profit lost 1 stat in defence
Polacio lost 1 stat in inside scoring
Bullocks

It's aimed at people who know how to use a computer  :lmao:

Using that you can sort the entire league by who improved in the most categories in a matter of about 2 minutes.

am i the only one who had a fine TC ? only players who lost something were those who won't play any minutes probably, and those who gained are starters or main backups :D

Kings are weak there, he barelly knows to open a browser and navigate :)

Meh. Still a mess to me.

When i feel creative i use Photoshop, when i want to write i use Word. Burning music and browsing the net is other things i do with my PC.

Other, nerdish stuffs doesn't interest me.

BTW, Phil Hubbard :O

PreTC:
B    C-    D+    C+    B-    C
After:
B+    C-    C-    B    B-    C

That's a +4 increase.  The 18th pick in the draft might be a viable starter now.

Worst TC ever...  Not a single player improved...  enough said...

Barton O'Connell continues to amaze.  Now a C A+ A+ A- in inside, outside, handles and defense.

He's had 4 straight where he's averaged a double-double (and the other two he missed it by less than 1 assist per).

And your potential starters ages are:
35
32
36
31
32

The only one that was a real disappointment would have been Natt.

Oh man, look at Mo Cheeks. I WANT HIM!

Heh.

I try to be level-headed when making draft sheets, but it probably wouldn't be a bad bet to think 76ers players might have decent potential :P

If you'll notice, The Doctor improved 2 ratings this TC as well.

I'll have to keep that in mind when Sir. Charles comes up.

Oh, not that i mind that. We need more talent in this league. The falling of overall talent in the last couple of years has been disastrous. We need more of Mo Cheek's in this league.

Off course i did. But since i'm having some talks with Sixers about him, i kept my mouth shut. :)

Obviously, but what I am saying is NO ONE IMPROVED!!!  Maybe I over looked 1 player...  And is not just that they didn't improve, but most declined...  My improvement-to-decline ratio must be about 1-to-5...

Well, the Warriors are pretty pleased with this latest training camp.
Jim Finley, my 26 year old starting center, went up in rebounding, and in now a B+ rebounder.  Took him 7 years to become the player I hoped, bt heis fianlly there.. lol

Cliff Robinson had a nice camp, going up one on both defense and rebounding, now B+ B.  And he kept his B potential.

Luol Deng had a nice TC, incresing his rebounding to a B-.

Ron Brewer also did quite well, gainign one in defense and one in rebounding, and keeping his B potential.  Likely my SG of the future...

And Julio Shireman had an interesting camp.  Up one in outside and handle, down one in defense.  Not with B potential, he looks like a pretty decent combo guard now.

Warriors had a good camp...  Quite happy with the youngster's progress this TC.

Totally agree...  Overall talent in this league sucks...  If a player has great offensive ratings, then his defensive rating are lackluster and the other way around...  There are less than a hand full of players left that can put up 25-30 PPG with defense and are not within a season or 2 of retirement...  This is not an attack at you Bods or at how you run this league(I know it is all computers), but overall improvement of players has been pretty bad that last couple of seasons IMO...  I just really hope the 84 draft starts out with really nice ratings...

my TC was so bad, i have to decide who's real potential i want to know  :?

Overall my team's increases and decreases basically balanced out...+1 overall in defense and -1 overall in rebounding.

As far as guys who should actually play significant minutes....

Jefferson: no change
Griffin: -1 out, -1 handles...no big deal for my PF
Gooden: -1 def but still B+
Mitchell: +1 handles
Snyder: -1 handles
Uner: +1 out
Gragg: no change
Van Exel: +1 handles
Sapp: -1 out, -1 def...biggest disappontment - may lose time to McCracken who improved +1 handle, +1 def

The same is true of the real NBA which is what this league is to be modeled after.  Talent is all relative...if no one on the league can put up 30 pts regularly then a 25 ppg scorer is valuable.  If no one can average 18 rebounds then a 13-14 rpg player is valuable.  The problem is everyone gets to hung up on the ratings...they want all superstars with A- or better ratings across the board.  Actually the bad overall TC helps support my theory that there is a balancing factor in the program that works to keep talent spread over a normal distribution curve.

So what your saying is if the league started out with say ten 30 PPG scorers, likely in a few seasons either most teams would have 30 PPG scorers or the ten original 30 PPG scorers would be declining to meet the league average???  So if the league has some shitty drafts, then everybody will lose out and vice versa...  It's a good theory I guess...

Close...but more to the fact that if the league started with ten 30 ppg scorers then it will always maintain around ten 30 ppg scorers.  As older players retire then younger ones develop to replace them.  We had some good young perimeter players in the early drafts: Pettit, Keogan for example.  The later drafts started showing some good young big men: Tyler, Wedge, Seigal.  As Bods has modified the draft to give better starting ratings the training camps have started to reflect less improvement rating wise.  The real key is to try to identify those players whose play is solid regardless of their ratings.

Decent TC for me.

 - Nick Abdur-Rahim stayed the same which is huge considering how bad he was earlier in his career.

 - Holman gained some rebounding
 - Al Harrington stayed the same, of HUGE importance!
 - Ivan Strong gained outside
 - McPherson gained handle but was dissapointing apart from that
 - BARTON O'CONNELL GAINED DEFENSE!! A+ outside, A+ Handles & A- defense!!!
 - Eddie Crawford is now decent with A+ handles and B- defense

Overall, I have a better team than last year!

I understand using Keogan and Pettit as example and maybe even Gatling...  BUT how can you say Wedge and Siegal are good youing players...  I can think of a decent amount of Players I would rather have as my Center and I think Wedge is a product of being the only option on a bad team...  Even Tyler has been somewhat of an under achiever...  Don't get me wrong, they are good, just not great...  Once Emeka and Dwight are gone is a 20 and 12 PF/C going to be all-league 1st team???  Who is there to replace Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, even Marion or Jermaine O'Neal???

After having had a bad feeling about this upcoming TC, I can say that I'm pleasantly surprised. Significant changes...

- Adams, who has consistently improved since entering the league, has now reached all-star caliber with +1 in inside, defense and rebounding. Believe it or not, he'll probably be coming off the bench. Regardless, he'll get his 25-30 MPG.
- Gerstl dropped in handles, rebounding, and potential. My biggest downgrade, and it's not even that important. He'll still likely start for me.
- Humphires improves in outside, handles, and rebounding. This creates somewhat of a dilemma with him and Manning. I'm not sure what I'll do.
- Robinson improved in inside offense. Hopefully this season he can be more of a factor on offense.

Aside from that, nothing major happened. Most of the changes were for the better, and the Cavs are definitely a better team than last year. This season should be a good one...

@ Pistons & Spurs;

2 words: Fictional players.

It's obvious.

FYI: giving virtual players "real" names doesn't mean anything in terms of how they play, develop or in any way perform within the program.  Unless of coursze you really think Yao Ming will be the most dominate player in the real NBA over the next 10 years and win 8 MVP awards.

Names? Why just stop at that? We should also give them atributes like they did have in real life as well. That's the point.

That is what Bods is trying to do...and because teammates are different, styles of play are different and a thousand other variables they won't produce the same as they did in real life. 

Yao is the perfect example.  He has won the SSBA MVP for the last 8 years...in real life I would be willing to bet everything I own that he won't win 8 straight MVP awards.  And his attributes were imported into the program based on his real life.

Oh please, don't bring just one extreme example to prove your point. Yao is just a anomaly. I'm sure there won't be many more Yao's like that. Even if it does, so what? Better for the game and better for the league.

I mean, just look at the 90's. You had David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Hakeem Olajuwon. There isn't a single fictional C in this league that can even slightly compare with those 3. You have no problem with that?

OK...then let's discuss Okafor.  My guess is that he never performs in real life as well as he has in the SSBA.  Or Al Jefferson.  Or Baron Davis.  Take any "real" NBA player that we started with and my bet is that their "real" career won't resemble their SSBA career at all.  And it could go the other way...Duncan will continue to have a much better real life career than his SSBA career.


Nope.  No problem here.  There aren't 3 centers that good in the real NBA right now either.

1) There's also flipside of that coin. Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, Lebron James, Gilbert Arenas, they are all outstanding players in the real life but never done anything significiant here. But i don't have a problem with that. I know it's extremely (i mean i guess) dificult to copy their exact stats and abilities and translate them here. I'm having problems with LACK of talent. That's the point.

2) It's too earlie to judge Okafor since he's just a kid at the beginning of his career. One day maybe he'll be a 20/10 player who knows? And as far as Baron concerns, he'd have definitely been an outstanding player if it wasn't for his chronical knee problems. So i really don't see what program did wrong with Baron.

Listen, all i'm sayin is this; There was Shaq, Dirk, Mcgrady, Garnett, Jermaine, Duncan, Marion, Kirilenko, Kidd, Brand, Yao etc etc, and with the exception of few (like Pettit and O' Bartoll) we have no successors of theirs, no next generation at all! I mean, how can you stand mediocracy?

Other simulation games have a thing called "regenerate".  When a player like Shaq retires he will automatic enter into the game's database and in couple of years he will reappear in the game with a different name but he has same height and weight but with low ratings and high Pot.

No need for that. This previous 2 drafts are really step in the right direction. I really see a better days for the league coming. Mo Cheeks, Erving, Magic, Bird, Moncrief....the league is already looking better. We should continue that way.

Uneventful TC for the Celtics.
I won't discuss the old guys too much, Marion gained offense, lost rebounds, Sampson gained handles but lost inside as well as Dirk, who will shoot even more from the perimeter, Haywood lost D - my only player to lose D - and Mercer did nothing. No big loss of more than one rating.

But the young ones: Schabinger improved offense and that can't hurt. Tower and Trump didn't change and Strait won offense but dropped in boards. Again no big changes. Only backup PG Smith dropping handles hurts a bit.

My rookies didn't move a lot (Frahm +handle/-reb, Sly and Weatherspoon nothing) and I fear their pot won't be 80+, so I droppen twin tower spoon and resigned the (non-fictional) Rookie Demic who I had dropped earlier, cause he improved 3 ratings and did show nice pot.


Overall, considering my aging team, i'm satisfied that the age-related drops were minor (at least none of my guys pulled a KOBE who dropped ALL FIVE CATEGORIES !!!) , but disappointed my Rookies and young guys didn't make considerable improvements in ratings.
 :?

bullshit. my mle and lle signees have degressed for the past 2 seasons :(

Meh, nothing special to report overall....

Paid closest attention to my draftees/rooks. The best news is that draft-loopholee/MLE signing Nolan Friedman improved 3 grades overall - 2 on D and 1 in REB, making him at least a serviceable starter. PG prospect Kyle Macy didnt improve one lick - especially disappointing is that his handles stayed at C. Mason Perry improved one grade in D, but his REB stayed at a mediocre C, and Terrence Rice lost a grade on D.

In other Nets related news, Paul Maggette improved in both scoring categories and D at the expense of a one-grade hit in handles. The rest of the NetVets stayed about the same or mildly regressed - a +1 here, a -1 there etc.

disappointed on my team...considering how young my team is...hoping for a decent start

who the F cares what they did in real life?  The point of these retro drafts are NOT to try to clone real nba players.  Just to capture their names, physical attributes (height, weight) and strengths/weaknesses.  I am not trying to duplicate anything.

Also, how many superstar 2 way players are there supposed to be in a league?  Is Max, Lord, Barton in that group?  Pettit and Gatling obviously are.  I'd say Emeka, when he gets back to a full season, still classifies, as does Yao.  Shawn Marion too.  I certainly think Magic could be.  As could Dan Laporte in a few years.  Rex Mehta playe dlike one last year, with 21.4 pts, 13 rebounds, and 4.4 blocks.  Elton Brand was for the longest time, as was KG and Dirk.  I'm not sure if I would consider Hoffa one, but with B+ defense, 25.6 ppg and 12.7 rpg, he's pretty darned close.  Who knows what happens with Bird or Tobey.  I'm just not sure how many I'm supposed to rotate in and out of the league.

(that was a serious questions, btw).

Hey, if there are 10, there are ten, and that is that.  Probably a good number...
I would say all the guys you mentioned are capable, with the right players surrounding them, of carrying a team deep into the playoffs.
Honestly, there are probably too many A- and A defenders in the league right now anyway.  There are not that many in the real NBA.

did I just miss something?

I don't understand your question. We were debating about lack of talents among fictional players and you're talking about KG, Brand, Yao, Marion etc.

That's exactly the point, though.

If Brand, Yao and Marion are still top of the line players, you can't bring in 'dominant-out-of-college' players becasue then there will be too many superstars in the league.

BTW, in that paragraph you mentioned, 8 of the players are fictional.

Dial went +3 in TC, improving in inside scoring, handling, and defense. He might have competed for rookie of the year had I had him as my number one option and an inside focus for the whole season. When i did that he was the rookie of the month. Now he's improved and is one of the more well rounded centers in the league.

Rivera improved +1 in outside, hopefully that improves his percentages. Also, I'm glad he kept his A rebounding.

Hardy improved +1 in handles which will hopefully mean a few less turnovers, a few more assists and a more solid role player in his position holding up the middle of the lineup at SF

Theus maintained his A potential but didn't improve anywhere which was discouraging, but I still have high hopes.

Gresham lost -1 in outside but gained a much more needed +1 in def.

Overall I am content with my improvements. Probably another lottery year which is great considering all of the picks i have for this coming draft! I also picked up some insurance by gaining a 2019 pick by giving up Meyers, which also gives Theus more playing time at his more natural SG position. I'm also in great shape with cap-room...Rivera is a little overpaid but I can't complain as long as he produces.

Ha. Ok, if that's your excuse, i'll take it (although no, i don't think we have enough of superstars in this league but that's just my opinion. The real NBA is far, far more talented and packed with stars than SSBA).


What about them?

I'm not really understanding how you argue that the NBA is far more talented than the SSBA.

Look at the League leaders last year.  How many guys averaged 13 rebounds in the NBA last year, as opposed to 4 in SSBA?  We had 6 SSBA guys average 10 assists last year, only Nash came close in the NBA.  Mehta's 4.4 blocks per game was much higher than the NBA leader.  Nobody averaged 2.9 steals per game in the NBA like Uner. 

The numbers are obviously comparable if not higher than the typical NBA numbers.  And besides, if there was an increase in two way players, it makes compiling the team far easier. 

ah thanks Bucks, you just spared me some time, i was thinking about making a list of NBA and SSBA superstar and young upcoming players to prove Kings that he's wrong.

Numbers, numbers, numbers. It's a computer game for gods sake. Off course the numbers are going to be higher. The point is how many of those stats translate into winning? What's the use of Patrick Gatling's 30ppg if he didn't make it to the second round in his life, playin alongside KG?

In 10 or so season here, how many fictional players led their teams to the title? One? Two maybe?

Just one look at the overal, shameful quality of the Western conference last season would be enough for anyone to realize what i'm talking about.

how many 20ppg guys led team all the way in last couple of year ? 3 or 4, or even better how many 30ppg guys ? NONE ! if PPG is what you're talking about.

And there's always one weaker conference and one much stronger, just like in NBA.

And i disagree about shameful quality of the West,

Mavs (Melo, Lebron, Harris etc.), Blazers (Hoffa, Bosh, Buehler, Telf etc.), Clipps(Troy,
MAggette, Gordon, Ty etc.), Warriors, Suns, Spurs those were all great teams and some still
are with some new coming.


And is real NBA much different ??? no it isnt, Easter conference had 5 teams above 51 % just
and 3 with 50 or below record, same shit happens here.

And in western conference Jazz with 41-41 record didnt even make the to the play-offs.


Its more or less the same here, what would you like, so every team has 10 fantastic players?
Every team here has 2-3 great players and some have much more, just like in NBA.

Um...

I won 3 titles with Pettit scoring 30 ppg.

The Raptors had 2 real starters (robert swift and Josh Childress), but I would certainly say their 3 best players were Max, Butler and Boykins (who did score 22.6 ppg that year).

And Gatling has gotten to the 2nd round.

Besides, if playoff success was the only determining factor,  I guess that means KG (zero championships), Yao (zero championships), Jermaine O'neal (o championships), Dwight Howard (zero championships) and Amare (0 championships) were not great players either.

(Point: a lack of playoff success doesn't mean they aren't great players).

.....just like in real-life....KG or AI probably wont see the ring either but they're for sure one of the greatest.

holy s.  Look at Bailey Snow.  With 9 years of experience, at 29 years old, he's now a C A- A A- in inside, outside, handles and defense.

and he will still suck, at least he did last year ...

What's the use of KG averaging 25/14/5/1.5/1.5 in the NBA if he never makes it to the NBA Finals in his life? :)