SSBA

Alright, I've been thinking of what to do with the draft.  With the ability to purchase a draftees true potential, the major benefit of FBCB (getting a feeling of what kind of player they are and if the potential is true or not) isn't as important.  So I'm going to open it up to a vote.  What would you rather have:
1) Leave it using FBCB.  Get a little more detail on what kind of player it is (i.e. that they have great passing, but also turn it over.  Better mid-range shooter than 3 pt shooter, etc).  Also get some insite on their potential, but with still leaving a little ambiquity
2) Start "recreating" the first round of the NBA draft from 1978.  Players wouldn't be exactly replicated.  They would share names and physical characteristics. i.e. Charles Barkley would be a 6'5" pf.  They would share similar characteristics (i.e. barkley would have better rebounding and scoring than defense), but the level of their attributes wouldn't necessarily be the same as their real life counterparts (i.e. Magic Johnson wouldn't automatically be great.  He may be a role player.  It also wouldn't have any corrolation with potential, i.e. you wouldn't know Karl Malone would improve from a 14/9 guy in his rookie year to a 31/11 guy just because he's Karl Malone).
3) Continue using FBCB, but have me "tweak" some players to get better draft classes.

Vote for which one you want, and I'll do it starting next year.  Remember, with option two I'm just doing however many players were in the first round, so there will be some computer created players (mainly because I don't have time to create 100 draftees).

BTW, I love the new options of this board.  It's set where it won't show the results until the poll is closed, and where you can change your vote before the poll closes.

I'd vote for the recreation draft, just to get something "new" in here.

Taking a deep look into FBCB recently I only found so many prospects for next year and definitely no superstar in the making, so I don't expect these FBCB drafts to improve considerably. But "tweaking" FBCB ratings would render the whole FBCB analysis useless, so why then even sticking to FBCB imports.


Would it be possible to use real names for the non-handmade players in a recreaqtion draft? So it can't be that difficult to find players that are about similar to original draft entries (i believe there wer multiple rounds, like 7 or so, back then so the pool of players to choose from should be there ...

 :cheers:

it would be nice to have a re-creation of the past drafts. as the fictional players is getting a bit boring. haha

OMG, we will keep Ivan aboard.
 :moon:

STOP EVERYTHING, long lives FBCB.
Or will those recreation draft give us names like "Yasha Lyashenko" ? That beats that boring and limited FBB draftee naming ...

Nope.  After the top 23-30 it would give you FBB created names :)

But I know you can get FBB a handmade list of names to use ... and if i see another Chase Chamberlain or Kareem Marion I'm going to throw up ...
 :puke:

So make me a list.

Wait a minute...We're going to have real time players in the draft?!? :D :D :D :D

You resigned, you nerd, because you couldn't bear watching TMac decline. So long my friend and leave us alone with what we're doing here ...



;-)

[/quote]

You resigned, you nerd, because you couldn't bear watching TMac decline. So long my friend and leave us alone with what we're doing here ...[/quote]

When i saw half of my team retired it was only matter of day before my final resignation. But now, things are little diferent... :)

Nevermind!  We'll continue using FBCB!  ;)

IMO too many GMS are looking for sure things 10-12 spots deep in the draft.  That doesn't happen in the real NBA very often so I don't see why we should have it happen here.  I don't think we should change anything unless we go back to FBB generated drafts and give up the FBCB ones.

And once we start "tweaking" the players to produce better drafts where does it end?  How much tweaking is allowed?  Will we create 5-6 all stars in every draft?  2-3 superstars?

And if we want "real" NBA player names then just edit the draft each year giving FBCB players real NBA names.  But don't change any of their attributes.  If we are not going to have true attributes for the Barkleys, Magics, Birds, etc then what difference does it make if they are PF or SG or whatever.

Review the award winners and all stars this past year.  Check out where the players were drafted.  There are stars being produced.  Very few are "NBA ready" when drafted from college but have developed into stars.  Everyone just wants to draft the next Pettit without doing any work.

I also think that we should leave it the same.  We haven't really gave the FBCB enough of a chance.  Sure we aren't getting the impact players that some might like, but that's the challenging part.  Between this and the hard cap I think the SSBA will become very competitive and will take more effort to be good.

I voted for the old NBA draft thing, but I had some misgivings about it. I think it's somewhat unfair to the teams who had high draft picks in the years we had some rough drafts. Teams that dominated during those years are now in the twighlights of their runs, just in time to catch some great prospects in the draft.
Overall though, I'd say the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I look on nbadraft.net and see in their projected first round that there are maybe 5 players that are ready to play now.  This definitely isn't the strongest draft ever but it compares with some of the FBCB drafts.  I don't think Tyrus Thomas is ready to play now but in a few seasons he might be a stud.  I think that's how these FBCB drafts work.  If you wait on a good player he will probably end up being a great player.

this year is possible one of the weakest drafts for nba ready player.
But to compare it with FCB is way off. We are already thinking that someone with C def would be a steal in this draft. 5 sim years ago he wouldn´t even be an IL list guy. I mean it is okay that the drafts aren´t producing allstars but at least there should be some role players. i believe if we continue with the current drafts we will have in 10 years a balanced league again with C defenders. But that would mean every 22 year backup guy now would be a superstar then... :bash:

One of the problems I could see with the old NBA draft approach is that say Bods creates a player named Michael Jordan.  Gives him reasonable attributes and A potential.  If this player never develops (I have seen players have A potential for 5 years and show only 2-3 points of rating increase) then will people get upset that they drafted Jordan but he turns out to be nothing but a backup guard?

Using real NBA names poses some risk if those players never develop as the real life players did.  Someone could draft Hakeem Olajuwon (name & attributes) and end up with Sam Bowie (injuries & underachieving).

Look closer at some of the players that are among league leaders or awards winners.

Uner (Spurs) 21st pick
Lord (Nets) 7th pick
Max (Raptors) 12th pick
O'Connell (Rockets) 8th pick
Lenard (Celtics)  8th pick

Then some solid players:
Paul Magette (Wizards)  15.2 pts, 11.7 reb, 3.5 blks  19th pick
Billy Joe Kim (Raptors)  11.7 pts, 10.6 reb, 1.6 blks  36th pick
Emanuel Griffin (Celtics) 18.2, 9.8, 1.4   4th pick

Recent first picks:
Barner 18 pts, 12 reb, 2 blks
Tyler  12, 12, 2
Berkowitz  20, 12, 1.5


How many NBA draftees ever hit consistant 18/12, or even 15/10?  There is plenty of talent available it is just locating it (and now you can buy true potential) or developing it.

I think we already have had this conversations and we all pretty much agreed that program produces only good role players or stars at best, but very rarely a true franchise player.

And second, i don't know why people find it stupid or unfair the fact that we'll actually be able to somehow predict ones career when we draft the guy. Isn't that the scout's job in true NBA also? I mean, you wanna say that people didn't know that Allan Iverson, Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Shaq, Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter etc etc wouldn't be a superstars in NBA before they even played one minute of pro ball?

Sure, there were stiffs like Kwame Brown (we can also make a trick or two so the one who's making a players can also make a player better then he actually was so at the end you could regret for passing on the guy cause of his real NBA career etc), Michael Olowakndi etc, but at the end, as someone said, the benefits definitely outweighs the negatives.

Off course, it took one nano second to choose the option no 2. :)

Yup.  That's why I specifically stated that the quality of a persons attributes will in no way correlate to their real life abilities.  I know this will most likely lead to problems though, but it's really the only way to handle it (the only other way is to try to mimic their impact/development as they did in real life, which would take much of the "chance" out of drafting).

btw, I checked the last drafts and tried to compare REAL FBB drafts with FBCB drafts .

Interesting facts:
2009 (real FFBB draft)
starters: Keogan (1), N.Abdur-Rahim (5), Schmaltz (8), J.Robertson (13), P.Maggette (19), Uner (21), (my)Schabinger (22), Hyatt (18)
others noteable: Stan Manning (2), Matthew Marion (3), Houbregs (4), Vince Davies (14)
one franchise player and a handful of good role players.

2008 (real FBB draft)
starters: Gatling (1), G. Boykins (2), Jim Finley (6), Chase Russell (8), Elliott (19)
others noteable: G. Schabinger, Strong, Shane Nesterovich, Zollner, Profit, Dench
none of those save for Gatling is more than a better role player and Gatling hasn't done too much eiter despite playing with KG

2007 (real FBB draft)
starters: English (1), Lenard (8)
others noteable: Dickau (3), Chase Hoiberg (4), Snow, Fox, Stockton, Sapp, J.Duncan, Jeannette (but alos guys like Brent Mercer, Al Garces, Michael Bellamy, Edwin Templeton and Shawn Geiger in the top 20)
two starters, no superstar, let alone franchise player and a couple of mediocre role players. The ratings from this draft look great but it produced nothing of impact.

2006 (real FBB draft)
starters: Houbregs (1), Pettit(2), Griffin (4), Diddle (5), Schenk (9), Havlicek (15), Chamberlain (30)
others noteable: Ferry, Ellis, Hobson, Terp, Del Negro, Nat van Exel, Mikan, Q.Mihm,
One franchise player and some nice role players. Nothing special actually.

So three (4 !!) drafts produced 22 starters. WOW !!!


Compare this to the FBCB drafts:
2010 (FBCB)
starters: Berkowitz, Shultz, Buehler, Brice, Bolinger, Khoury, O'Connell, MAX !, Butler, Sandy Carter, Vice
others: Ruiz, Dickman, Mangrum, Clardy,
hands down the best draft of this league. 11 starters alone so far.

2011 (FBCB)
starters: Barner, Stocker(2), Strait(4), Ramsay(5), Mehta(6), Lord(7),
others noteable: Gerstl, Garcia, Rivery, Reed, Jonas
in line with most better FBB drafts. No superstars but some very fine starters and some role players

2012 (FCBC)
starters: Tyler(1), Gragg(2), Gaylor(4), Phelps(7), Gomes(9)
others noteable: Priddy, Milner, Trump, Adams, James
it's getting worse, and it doesn't look like there will be a lot more to evolve from this draft.

2013 (FBCB)
too early to judge but it doesn't look like there will be many starters behind Siegel, Kent, Davis, Sylvester and maybe Fuqua and Wheat. You don't even get backups from the mid-1st round


So the first FBCB drafts were just fine but they now get worse and worse ... and looking at FBCB perview in depth I did't discover a franchise player who will be coming out in years to come. Some nice talent, true, but nothing to blast us away.

That said, maybe the problem isn't the import to FBB but FBCB after all. Most freshman there have horrible ratings and need to develop at a much quicker rate than in FBB to get even decent, let alone great. If FBCB TCs are similar to FBB it's no wonder we get worse drafts each year.
Solution: Start a new league in FBCB each season to get fresh drafts (now honestly, who really looks at FBCB stats from past seasons)


But I might be completely off target here, too
 :cheers:

So if I see that right, the # of franchise players coming from the draft is pretty low.

Dirk, TMAc, Duncan, KG, Kirk, Ben, Emeka, LeBron, Earl, Bibby, Yao, AK47,  and so on all have been in FBB from the beginning of the league. These are the franchise players ... and one of those has won the title every year and MOSTLY because of these players.


So maybe, just maybe handmade drafts could finally make up that disparity in talent between original FBB and draft additions ...

 8)

And speaking of 1978. How symbolic, that's the year i was born....and the year Larry Bird was drafted. I need to get my pick back and start to tank right now. :)

iew!!!! your old !!! :lmao:

but i voted for number 2... i think its ok to expect jordan to be a star...just like when nets drafted emeka...we all know his gonna be a star... number 2 option makes this league more fun and realistic...more close to real...

PLEASE DON'T TWEAK the draft...i think its a bad option...

um..
1) Emeka wasn't drafted
2) the point is you WON'T know how good somebody will be based on their name.

I think this is an excellent idea.  I am all for this (who cares about the history of the FBCB?)

So, Bods, how exactly will the draft work now?  We will use real NBA names but will you create/tweak the attributes?  Or will you just take either the FBB or FBCB draft list and change names?

please dont mind this post.

restart the league. haha. I want the real Magic roster now. :S  :moon:

Ha, I'd be all for a restart starting with the #1 overall pick :D :D

Aldridge, Thomas, Morrison or Bargnani.

Who you think Colangelo will go for?

aldridge but i guess he will trade it. thomas, bargnani make no sense and morrison health is too questionable.
top 3 should be
1) aldridge either raptors or someone who traded for him
2) bargnani this will tough for the bulls but thomas makes no sense imo since he is too similar to chandler. the bulls need some scoring from the big position and bargnani is the best option here. But pax is very conservative so it could be possible that he trade down to pick roy for example.
3) morrison pretty easy choice here imo charlotte needs scoring and with wallace and emeka such defense monsters they can hide adams weakness pretty well.

BC loves Bargnani...I see us trading down to get him...Aldrige seems to be a great fit for the Bulls, maybe they would part with 2 and 16 for 1?

But if we do hold on to the top pick, I see no way we can pass up Aldridge....That would give us the best young frontcourt in the league.

Essentially I will take 25-30 players (depending on how many were drafted in the NBA that year) from FBB, and "tweak" (RE: change everything) to make them their real life counterparts.  Now, I'm going to try to grab the 25-30 of the better FBB created players so this doesn't artificially create a much, much stronger second round than in previous years.