SSBA

Raptors Trade:

Darius Perry
Tayshaun Prince

Clippers Trade:

Josh Childress
Stefan Holston
Clippers 2013 First Round Draft Pick

Raptors agree.

Clippers agree.

This is an absolute steal for the Raptors.

Childress is an offensive dynamo who can defend AND rebound at the two swing positions.  (think shawn marion).

Plus, he lands a first rounder as well.

Wow, in a league dominated by PGs, Darius Perry is alright, but not worth Childress...in my opinion.

However, with the success of the Clips...it is hard to disagree with anything he has done...maybe he knows something that I don't.

Anyways, good deal for the Raps.

very good deal for the raptors imo
he trades two backups for a SF who could be a starter on most teams.The pick is way too much for perry.

Big risk by the defending champ here. They'll miss that versatility that Chills brought and made them so hard to deal with. While I see Ben doing great at SG I believe Maggs was perfect there. He won't be the same on SF.
Perry/Ben/Maggs will allow the opponent to focus a lot more on Ben.
Ben/Maggs/Prince will reduce them to 4 scorers on offense.
Perry/Ben/Prince ... nah.

I don't see them getting in a winning situation here unless Perry suddenly develops into a 15ppg scorer and great distributor.

I'm not sure i'd call Childress an "offensive dynamo".  

But I agree, he overpaid.  Perry was quite a disappointment last year.

I think the Clipps gave a little too much for a unproven point but he's a good gm, he knows what hes doing

if i remember right he traded josh for livingston and now back for perry.
that is a big drop in production. maybe perry will explode in the next TC??

this is the seond great trade for the raptors in a row ...
glad to see yao isn´t anymore there ... :D
could you imagine a starting lineup of max, josh, dickau, gasol and yao ??? :shock:

I've been a GM of the Magic since the beginning, and I ain't never heard of Darius Perry.

anyway, I think the Raptors got the real edge in this deal. But the Grizzlies might have needed a point guard and perhaps Darius Perry is what the Clippers think would be a better fit for his team.

Giving up the pick; however, is a stretch :D

The Clippers have been looking for a point guard for a long time, and Perry is an excellent fit for them.
Look at Perry's play as a point guard, and not his play as the starting sg for the Raps.  He had an excellent Assist:TO ratio (although how much of that was created by Yao is a question), is a very good ballhawk, and is also an excellent rebounder from the PG position.

Ben Gordon at SG is probably a 25 ppg scorer, playing at SG held his scoring back a little.

Clippers pick is pointless, it means very little in this trade.
Childress has been an enigma, he has never played as well as you would hope.  But he is a perfect fit on the Raptors, who need the defense at the SG spot.

The Raptors have just vaulted in the top 4 teams in the East with this trade, imo.

Thanks guys. My reasoning was pretty simple: I love Perry, but I don't need him with Max and Dench. Perry obviously is great, but after having the best TC of all players in the SSBA last season, it would be wrong to expect much more improvement from him.

Who knows about the Clippers pick. I have seen alot of Championship teams rebound with a poor (by their standards) season. If the Clipps pick turns out to be in the 20-22 range, that would be awesome. Since this year's draft was brutal, maybe next year's will be better.

And finally, Childress reminds me of a poor man's Marion, as someone said. I don't think he is an "Offensive dynamo", but he is a decent scorer, putting up double figures will starting in recent years. Also, his size is going to be great for the 2, and he will be able to rebound well. Team rebounding will be big this year, as my 5 starters last year averaged: 7, 12, 7, 5, 4. All of these numbers will go up. Plus, Childress still has the B potential.

So anyway, save for a decent backup C to be found in FA, this is the Pre-TC Raptors depth chart, with ages, potential in brackets:

C: Swift (24, B) / Garcia (23, B) / Swift
PF: Gasol (30, C) / Garcia / Gasol
SF: Anthony (26, B) / Dickau (26, B) / Melo
SG: Childress (27, B) / Dickau / Childress
PG: Max (22, A) / Dench (27, B) / Max

This lineup is good enough to (IMO) win 50 games this season, and be even more successful with each year. Of course, much like the Peja-Yao era, I am probably done making any significant trades for a few seasons, which stinks. Part of the reason I wanted a draft pick this year, so I had something to do :)

wow.

just wow.

Disagree, we all know what a pick in the 20-29 range is: useless salary to carry around for 4 years.

Every once in 20 picks a gem comes along but waiting for that is simply not an strategy for a contender.

So the pick is the least price to pay here, and IF Perry improves (big IF, as Raptors lined out, since he topped the class last season) this will be a good deal for both. Right now I see the Clippers with Perry a tad behind the Clippers with Chills. But don't forget Prince, who's another solid guy, so maybe i'm completely off target here ...


... looking at my record i don't seem to be the best here at assessing talent and putting together winning teams :-(

Bah, come on. Don't tell me you haven't heard anyone every say that someone is "great" when they actually aren't.

When you get something you don't want for your birthday, you don't say "i don't want this" you say "this is great".

Yes, but you can stop selling your players after you trade them.

Right now I'm going to say Darko is "great".  He's not.  He's servicable.  If I trade him, I'm going to say "wow, I just got this <great> guy for Darko!"

The PR spin machine on this board is amazing sometimes.  I've never seen so many "great" 2nd round picks that people were targetting with a top 15 pick of the first round and miraculously fell :)

Perry does some things well.  Some things not so well.  I don't think either of the two players are great.

Never had any faith in him anyway. I couldn't belived guys were trading for Perry, a 2nd round player with max contract.

Now that's as much an accurate description of Perry as we will get ...


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

But the word "great" is the type of word that can mean many different things. Perry is great at the role he plays - which is going to be backup PG for the Clippers.

Probably just the differences in our cultures.

right, but you didn't specify.

You just said he's great.

If he's a great roleplayer, that's a very important part you left out :)

True, but that;s the difference in our cultures. If my Aunt Edna knits my a sweater for Christmas that is 2 sizes too small, I can say it's great instead of saying "it would be great if it wasnt 2 sizes too small and if it didnt itch me"

:)

Eh, i'm having that problems all the time. Diferent cultures uses the same words in diferent context and in diferent meanings.

Trev: no, that's not confusing at all.  That's called common courtesy.  Everyone's gotten gifts that were crap that they go "aww, gee, thanks.  this is great".  But I don't see that being nearly the same as now.

When you say that to you're grandmother, you're trying to "sell" her on the idea that the gift was great.  Who are you trying to sell here?  The trade was already made.

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from, but I guess here we use the same sort of common courtesy for other things as well.

So where is the common courtesy when you call people out for not responding to PM's?

Nah.  This was spin.  You're a master at spinning your players.

It's like me on DJSL.  I was pimping Steve Francis to try to get something for him.  In the end, I didn't get much, except except to clear 2 contracts off my books.  But if I don't spin it, I get nothing.

You just don't stop spinning :)

SonicsGM... are you kidding me?

Did you really write all of this?

After you made an offer for Childress that was worse than what I got now??? You really dissapoint me as a GM.

And that is, why in my reasoning (which I will post soon) I will talk about how difficult it is to make trades.

Alright now, calm down guys.

I think Chill is the better player.  But I don't think he was great, and very replacable.

I like it for the Raps, but I don't think giving up Childress was this colossal loss either.  Frankly, Childress has disappointed me a bit.

Ok, so after a long day of work... here is the reason from the Clippers.

Most of you favor this trade heavily for the Raptors. I must say that I have had many (many!) talks around the league in the past 2 seasons about dealing Childress for a point guard. I will not go into details and tell you what I got offered for it, but believe me... this is the best deal I got.

I still think that many gm's overvalue their players. They ask for too much. When I was looking for a starting point guard, everyone told me that it would take a lot. Definitely more than Childress. And now you all tell me that I should have gotten more for Childress? This is strange. Also one of the reasons why I don't trade often. The other reason being that I give my team time to come together... time, as in more than 3 sims! I guess you know what I mean.
Same with this deal. I found Childress and Holston  for Perry and Prince fair. But if I dont throw in a pick, I dont get it. So as I will explain later, I did it anyway because I think my pick is not worth much. But still... I dont think it was needed.

WarriorsGM I think had a very good view on this deal. Perry will be my starting point guard and I think he will fit. His job? As you will notice from the other 4 starters... Perry will not HAVE TO score. And he has A- for both handling and defense with an A potential. Yes, he had a great TC last season. But why would he not get better anymore this TC? Maybe he wont, but maybe he will. It does not matter if he had a great one last season. TC is ALL ABOUT LUCK. You run it a couple times... everytime with a different outcome. So Perry has as much chance to become even better this TC than any other player. If he doesnt... ok, I am fine with that.

Childress has never been to me what I expected him to be. Has anyone of you followed him closely the last 3 years? And about Childress being an offensive dynamo... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The pick? I dont think it will be higher than 22. I have had picks in the 20's for years now. You want to know who these players were? Indeed, you don't want to know. I have hardly ever used them. All they did here was eat, sit, shit,... and get paid for that! As WarriorsGM said... sometimes you get lucky with a late 1st round pick. But is that really what I should wait for?

Anyway... CelticsGM put up 3 different scenarios of my starters 1 through 3 for upcoming season. Did you notice Maggette being 30 and having D potential? Did you notice Brand has played sf for a long time now? Put all of this together and you know that Maggette will be a backup who will light other team's backups up big time.

Now to finish this... being very honest... I hope that Perry's A potential will give him another (probably smaller) boost in TC and that he will be a very decent starting pg. Something I have looked for for a long time.

Sorry in advance to all of you (and especially SonicsGM). I think I might have written down too many of my thoughts. I will go chill now for a while.

Personally, I think my offer was better (potential aside), but I do think that Perry might fit your team more not being as great of a scorer.  It's a good deal for both sides and will probably fill needs better, but I think my offer was better.  Of course a lot of people think their offers are better than the one people end up accepting.

You are right. You actually had a very fair offer. But you know what I was afraid of.

definitely, I can't blame you, your the defending champ, you have to have some clue what your doing.

Something along the lines of "size DOES matter" ?
 :wink:


Oh, and i must confess, about the only time i followed Chills really close were the Conf Finals with the Kings. When Brand went down he simply went off and led your team in scoring. Just one game but there the legend of the "offensive dynamo" was probably born. I didn't even realize until much later that he was a backup all the time (just plain bad research and first talk then think on my behalf)  :oops:

And through all these scenarios it is clear to me that only successfully starting Perry will make this deal good one for you.

1. Yeah did not even think of that. I was more afraid of that potential. Though that is not always a reason to drop in attributes either. Difficult decision...

2. Yeah, that I have to agree upon. Perry does not have to score a lot... but he has to play very well as a starter and lead the team. It will be a hard task.

Btw... indeed Childress was mainly a backup for me. And Perry will start. So from my point of view... I traded a bench player for a starter. (though I know Childress is probably the better player now. not by far!)

i don´t agree here that perry just have to play and defend. he will have at least be a better PG than gordon as ass/to concern and even if corey is getting old josh could have easily replace him at SG and did what perry will do for you. there was no real need for this trade imo.
I am pretty sure everyone in this league and that mean also you are overvalueing their own players. so i don´t see the point of your comment.

lol, I can't argue with you.

It works though.