SSBA

Rumors abound that there will be a press release later tonight.  Stay tuned.

I wonder what  :?:

Okafor coming out of the closet?

I heared about a rumor. They want to trade Pettit to the Clippers because netsgm dying wish is to have Pettit and Gordon play on the same team.

Ok, this will be broken down into sections.  the what, the how, and the why (which will address concerns).

What:
Some people may have remembered that I said I would break up my team if I won the title this year.  Even though I didn't win, I'm still going through with it.  And let's make no mistake about it.  I hate it.  I despise it.  I loathe what I am about to do.  I've wrestled with it all year.  Everyone wants to build a dynasty (hopefully one that wins more than 1 championship, but that's another story).  I thought I had another have decade of this in my team.  Okafor's 27.  Dalembert's 28.  Pettit's 25.  Lord's 21.  I would like nothing more than to continue my dynasty to last a decade, hopefully win 1-2 more titles in that time.  It pains me for all that work I did, molding my team for 7 years to the point where I think I now have the best starting lineup and bench I've ever had.  Pettit and Okafor have been the faces of my franchise since its inception, since I traded away my fading franchise player before a game was played, and in the last two years IMO the best 1-2 punch in the league.  It's going to hurt to see them playing on another team next year.

But I also realize it has to be done.

How:
Pettit and Okafor's contracts will be zeroed out.  All remaining years will be set to a value of $0, and they will be placed within the FA pool for anyone to bid on.  The rest of the team I will retain to move at my discretion.

Why:
Isn't zeroing out their contracts illegal?  Aren't you getting an added advantage of being the commish by not having them continue to count against your cap?
Sure, I'm getting an added advantage.  If you believe I'm doing this to help my team.  No, I'm doing this to help the league.  Why should I suffer because I'm voluntarily giving away two of the best players in the league in their prime for no compensation?  If you have a problem with me getting rid of the players without their contracts counting against me, ask yourself this.  Would I be able to trade Pettit for an expiring contract?  If you say no, you're absolutely nuts.

Dalembert, Gooden, Dunleavy, Battier and Boykins will combine for 70.5 million next year.  My cap's killed regardless.  All of these contracts were signed to be complimentary players for Okafor and Pettit.  They were given those contracts (or traded for) under the assumption I would be over the cap with Okafor and Pettit anyway.  Thsoe contracts without Okafor and Pettit on the team are nuts.

Why not trade them for expiring contracts instead?
I want to give everyone a chance to get them.  I don't want to determine who gets Okafor and Pettit, as I would by deciding who to trade him to.  I want it to be random.

Why not trade them for whatever you can get?
The whole point of me trading Okafor and Pettit is because the commish winning is bad for the league.  I could get immense talent back for these two, and be right at the top of the league.

But this doesn't emulate the real NBA.  The real NBA doesn't get to release players!
No, and the real NBA also doesn't see a team who's been to 4 straight finals and win an average of 65.6 games per year over a 3 year span want to give away two of the best players in the league for nothing, either.

Bods, my one concern is that placing them in this year's FA pool does not give everyone a chance at all. No one has had the chance to look ahead and adjust their caps accordingly.

8)

And there's no way to give everyone a chance.

I had considered making them a FA, not letting anyone sign them, then moving their age back one year, and putting them in the 2013 fa pool, to pretend this offseason never happened with regards to them, and giving people time to clear their cap.  in the end I didn't think that was in the best interest of the league.

really, this move isn't about who gets Okafor and Pettit, but that they're taken away from me, since the commish winning isn't good for the league.  I'm trying to do what I think is most fair, but nothing will ever be completely fair.

And them being in FA increases the quality of players available for the MLE.

if i remember the cap right there is only one team with a real chance to get okafor or pettit... the magic.

i am not sure who i would take if i have to choose  :roll:

As of right now, the following (without retirements taken into effect) are under the cap after this season:

New York Knicks
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia 76ers
Atlanta Hawks
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Houston Rockets
Utah Jazz
Memphis Grizzlies
Los Angeles Lakers

And there are definite chances for other teams (through retirements) to fall into this category as well.

No need to roll any eyes at this move.

i can only see the magic,hawks and the cavs (with a chance to have enough cap space for two max contracts if they trade their firsts  :shock: ) with enough capspace for a max offer.
and i know you hope that shaq and nash will retire, so it could be the sonics as well.
But the magic are the fav to get one of the big FAs.

I am really shocked by your move. I would rather have a chance to improve my team and beat you like the clipps did than maybe winning it next year because you destroyed your dynasty. I have won simtitles before but none would mean so much to me like an SSBA one. You really deserved to be on top and it is your knowledge and skills that made me work harder to surpass you. If you want to rebuild make it by trading them for youth and picks like the sonics and the cavs did. They didn´t get always fair value and gambled a lot but the sonics had some success with this strategy.
Maybe someone should make a poll and let the other gms decide if it is really so bad to have a commish with the best team earned by hard work.

hopefully, I am :D

but if there are 4-5 players worth max contracts, 7 teams with cap space, but only 3 with max room, it means some max players will go for less than max deals.  They'll still go to other teams.

If I wasn't the commish, I'd agree with you.  I strongly believe that a commish winning (for a stustained period of time) is bad for a sim league.

bods, I want your pick next next year for my pick this year.. :D

No thanks.  20 something picks mean nothing to me.

Yeah, Tmac also decided to test the free waters...

haha. Tmac will be back in a Magic uni :D

no chance that t-mac will change the conference. i am pretty sure except of okafor or pettit none of the max worth players will change teams.

will this depend on the highest bidding salary? or just the normal free agency thing?

it's normal free agency.

Don't be so sure. I think there is long rebuilding road ahead of me.

I don't know what is more detrimental to a league; having a commish win, or giving 1 or possibly 2 superstars to a team that doesn't deserve it, and greatly undermining the prestige of winning the title for the next 5-10 years.

If this is truly necessary, then Okafor and Pettit should be given to the two teams with the worst records: the Suns and the Lakers.

That is something I considered, but don't you think that's a slap in the face to be "given" a player because you stink?  And why do they deserve to be given a player?  At least the person who gets them in FA will have managed the cap.  They managed the cap to try to make a run at a superstar.  Their odds have increased, but the goal was still the same.

Ahh, but how about a special restricted free agency...
Whoever sign Okafor or Pettit has to sacrifice 2 of their own 1st round picks...  A semi-restricted free agency, baseball stye.

Instead of FA why not put them in the draft?  That will increase the odds of them going to a team that could really use the help.

I discussed that with Emeka and Pettit, they both told me they will not play for rookie contracts  :lol:

I will consider that.  I will also think about holding them out a year and making them FA's in 2013 (keeing their age and potential the same).  I'll mull over this and have a decision tonight.

The thing that worries me about the draft is it gives someone too easy of a chance to rebuild, getting that quality of a player on a rookie contract.

Maybe make it known that whoever drafts them gets their current contract, not a rookie contract?

Another thing to consider.

That would be a good solution....then the top 2 teams in the draft have a decision to make.  Also it pushes the rest of the talent down a couple notches.

This whole thread is just absurd. I mean, is this a heavy competitive league or a charity foundation? We're all here to show our GM skills. It takes time, energy, knowledge and nerves to make a great team. There is no way someone should give it's top players for free just to make a "ballance" in the league.

1) If they have the worst record in the league, they probably know they stink
2) I don't think they deserve the player at all; I said if this has to be done, then it should go to them
3) If people had known that these two guys would be on the market then they would have tried much harder to cut cap. Superstars almost never change teams via free agency. Now it is gauranteed that two will surely change teams. This has vastly increased the value of cap space for this FA.

If the goal is to make this league more competitive, then the two teams that have the worst record should be given the players. I can't see what goal is met by going with the FA method. The Magic made the playoffs last season and the Cavs have historically been a solid team, as have the Sonics (if they get their retirements).

Techically, I like the idea of putting them in the Draft...
But seeing who has the top draft picks, it would likely make a team (aka Denver) dominant.  But that is probably the most fair way, imo...

First of all; Are we going to allow that someone (regardless if it's Commish, co - commish or someone else) has to break up his team (the one which he builted for years) just because someone else thinks he's cheating?

(and i'm sure that's someone with pretty much lousy team that hasn't done anything so far in this league).

Why not just let Okafor and Petit retire?

It's not about balancing the league.  I'm not doing this because I'm winning.  Otherwise I'd be taking teams off the Clippers, Pacers and Hornets as well (and the Jazz when they made their run).  It's being done because teh commish is winning.

It's a two fold thing.  People don't trust a commish who's dominant because of the extra resources he has and because he's the only team with the capability of cheating.  You're naturally suspect.  And it's no fun to be a commish winning because everyone accuses you (either directly or indirectly) of cheating.  The last 1.5 sim years has probably been the least fun for me of all the years I've been in a league because of this.

So, you wanna say to us that in the next years you will be just humping around, simming and all that but you won't win cause you don't have the "rights" to do so?

i don´t get this. We are all gms. If someone wants to break up his team like the bulls did in the real nba why not use normal gm skills?.

Trade them for youth,cap, picks whatever you think is best for your situation. So everybody has a chance to be creative and get them.
you could do it like the sonics for example.

Or another idea is why not keep them for one more year and declare that they will be FAs. I am pretty sure half of the teams will have capspace after the season. That would be pretty fair imo.

there are so many more ways...

i don´t like the draft idea at all. This players are proven vets but the exiting in the draft is you never know if you have drafted a star or a bust.
trough countless drafts no numer 1 was rewarded with such a gift.
Another thing is that if you put them into the draft the capspace value will be higher than ever because everybody knows that they will not be resigned by their team.

Yes, I like this idea.

However, this doesn't resolve the problem of the asterisk that has to go next to the name of every champion from now until 2020.

2 reasons
1) I do not want to get value back for them.  Why?  It would make it too easy for me to rebuild.
2) I don't not want to be the one to decide who gets Okafor and Pettit, because I don't want people to bitch that I'm playing favorites.



What I want to do is have a piss poor team and try to turn them into a playoff team.  Maybe even a top 4 team in the conference.  That will allow me to have fun in the league without damaging the league.

This is entirely your call (I see where you're coming from, but of all the GM's here, who doesn't know how much time and effort you put into this), but I'm not sure throwing them into free agency is the best idea.

I tried for the last couple years to keep below the cap in order to offer a star a big deal.  The only problem is that either no one worth all that money ever made it to FA or the ones that did simply resigned with their previous teams.  So it's really not advantageous to be below the cap, and most teams already realized this before I did.  Since these two guys are going to be aberrations to how SSBA free agency has worked in the past, it might be best to consider one of the many suggested alternatives.

Of course, this is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

Yes, instead of talking about what would be the fairest way of dividing these guys up, we should first decide whether this is really necessary. I really feel that this should be put up for a vote. League members should be given a say in what's best for the league. If it turns out that the majority think this is the best move, then we should have a vote on what to do with the players.

You all know I would have to weigh in on this sooner or later. ;)

Here are my thoughts: this is our, what 12th season of SSBA, counting the 2 different versions we have seen? And I have obviously been one of the most active GMs throughout these 12 seasons. I've always had winning teams, yet I have never, ever made it to the Finals, let alone won one. That has always been my goal.

But now, if this happens, it wouldn't even matter to me that much anymore. Sure, it would still be nice to win, but it would feel tainted....really tainted. I would feel like the only reason I won was because Bod's blew up his team. This isn't the feeling that I want to have.

Bods, not only does this move make it less fun for you, but it makes it less fun for every single team that thought they had a chance to beat you. Every GM, like me, who dreamed about the day where they won a Championship over every other team that was at full strength.

While I agree that your team is good, very good, I don't you are unbeatable. Last year I took you to 7 games in the 2nd round, meaning you almost didn't make it to the Conference Finals, let alone win that title.

I only have one proposal that I see fair, instead of the Okafor and Petit thing...re-start the sim. Let everyone pick teams again, get a recent file, and completly restart the sim. And Bods, don't take the Heat or Spurs, take a team like the Knicks. Or the Bobcats. And prove your GM skills all over again.

I disagree.

Nobody is going to come out and openly support the stance at this point.  Nobody's going to want to put themselves out on an island like that.

But I've seen it, both in this league and in other leagues, what a commish consistently winning does.  ESPECIALLY with the past history of this league and the actions by the prior commish.

I don't think many people would want to re-star the sim.

Besides, the cool thing is that we made it this far.



Hey!  I took the Nets.  Richard Jefferson blew, I had alonzo mourning and Zoran Plannanic (!) in my starting lineup.

i agree.
for me it is very improtant to see if this is really necessary. i am pretty sure there are more than 5 gms who believe they can win it all even against the current nets.
@raptors i like your point of view of sucess without bods but to start it all over again is too much imo. I am sure all of us are waiting for the day we have replaced all the known players for FBB created players. I have never seen such a league before.

I know you did, but now you'd have a chance to do it all again.

I really, really don't want to see this happen. A Championship after this would mean way less to me.

Don't worry.  That's not something you have to worry about.

Pacers will plaster you next year regardless.

 :?:  I don't get it. Haven't you done that already?

I mean, if someone thinks you're cheating, there is no way to prevent that the next time you pick the bad team either so this is all pretty pointless. If you wanna cheat, you'll cheat any time you want. Now (or in the past) with the Nets or in the future with your next team.

Completely pointless.

i don´t know the prior commish but this is one of the simleagues where no changes have been made in the ratings and also there are no 10 year old boys who are complaining all the time about loosing.
this is a very strong sim league. So i guess we can take it like man and try to beat you as often we can  :wink:

I second that.

yea don´t worry
me or hornets will take care of you  :wink:

Nobody will notice enough to scrutinize your every move if you work to become a 41-41 team.  I won't have to be worried that I'll have a good training camp and everyone will get suspicious.

Like I said, I'll have a final decision tonight.

Exactly. While the Nest have been the masters of regular seasons, they only won ONE title. Jazz, Sonics and Clippers proved that aynone can be beaten. I'm pretty sure if i had a chance to play with the Nets in this year finals that it would have been a hellava series.

Now, if the Nets had something like 5 titles in a row with no one to come near them in any series then it would have been a diferent story. There would have been plenty of reason to doubt that he cheats. But that wasn't the case and there is no way he should break up his team UNLESS he's bored with his curent roster or if he thinks that the team has reached its' peak.

let us make the decision. Why are you breaking up a team that couldn´t win 2 rings in a row or even a second. if you have won 3 in a row i would agree but after loosing now 4 finals or something you should keep everythiing the same. There is no team that is too strong for a sim league and it is not about being the commish or cheating or something else.

So you're doomed to have mediocre team? Just great :?

kings you beat me by a few seconds  :lol:

Could be, but that's beside the point.

In a way this sums it up well, Bods.  You haven't won more than 1 title.  There are 2 or 3 teams in each conference that feel they have a chance against you.

Besides if you really feel that you are too dominating just have Petitt play baseball for a couple years.  I hear he's been seen around town with some shady individuals.   :shock:

 :lol: that would be cool

and it is a great idea. why gave up both if we can´t change your mind let´s keep pettit at the IR for 2 years or something like that or let him play baseball   :wink: not that i like the idea

It's not that I feel I'm too dominant.  Even my ego isn't that big  :lol:

It's really something I was thinking about based on vibes from comments.  But it's really a decision I came upon when I made the "look at LeBron" thread.  

Here I joined a league where the commish was the 3 time defending champs.  He had just won 69 games.  He had LeBron, where he was an A- A A A C+ player.  3 straight league MVP's.

I immediately thought, "oh, how convenient".  Now I had no reason to think he cheated.  I had no proof.  I knew nothing of the GM.  Immediately suspicous.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that it isn't good for the league to break my team up.  It's human nature.

Here's something no one's mentioned yet, that may be a bit of a compromise.  If you really are hellbent on blowing up your team, why not just lose one guy: Pettit or Okafor?  Losing them both is a both extreme.

The whole reason I built my young team is to come in and take a title after your run, Bods. My starters after Yao are 24, 25, 25, 21. Meaning I will be at my best in 3-4 years, when Boykins, Dunleavy and Battier will both be too old to contribute in the same way.

Lol...  Hoenstly Bods, I have thought your teams window is only about another 2-3 years anyway...  With Boykins aging, as well as Dunleavy and Battier, the future could be tougher then you think.

Plus, if The Nuggets get the 1st pick, we are all doomed anyway...   :D

I have yet to give my idea. I don't think Bods has to do this. I completely agree with many of the reasons stated above.

And if you would cheat... wouldn't you have won that 7 game Finals series against me?! It could have gone either way basically. And believe me... it feels sooooooooo good to be the Champion now! Knowing two things: 1. that I kept my team together for so long, believing they would finally get together and win the whole thing, which they did (ironically in a season where they had not such a good regular season as the ones before! meaning anything can happen in the playoffs) 2. we beat the Nets in a 7 game series!!! That is what made me go crazy instead of just happy!

Bods... I think that if you really want to do this... I think it would be very fair to say that Pettit unfortunately got in a car accident, has to recover, is out for lets say 2 seasons, then comes back at half strength (can you change his ratings?).... and Okafor retired because he had no more fun in basketball and is now a Philadelphia Eagle.

Well it would be great for Nets to break up his team. I would really love if the Pacers, Clippers, Warriors, Hornets, Mavs and any other better team do the same as well so i can be a champ! Wouldn't that be just greeeat??

I wanted to ask him did he let you to win the finals so no one can be "suspicuos"...

How about you just switch teams with someone. Let's say that you got fired by management cos you AGAIN ( :lol:  :lol:  :lol: ) lost a Finals series! (I am being a bit foolish since I just one my first ring!) And another team hires you as GM. So you can switch with someone. See if that other person has what it takes to run the Nets! He probably will the first couple seasons, cos cant do much wrong with em now. But after that he will have to show his skills as well.

Hahaha... could be. However I think those Clippers finally had to win it so I think it was all fair.

Of course not.  If I'm breaking up my team a winner, I obviously wanted to go out a winner.

so how about the retirement and the car accident?

no the switch teams is not fair.
bods as you see there are many ways to beat your team wait till it is too old  :wink: or rebuild or simply make minor changes.

i agree to the nuggets and the clippers. you should not make both FAs. retire one or let his ratings drop or....
or try to win one more ring if you can  :twisted:

so wait till you are one. you proved nothing than a solid regular season.
for fun i built the perfekt team in FBB with players full of As and still i couldn´t win more than 70 games. FBB is crazy enough to keep everything in balance.

This I personally really like as an idea.  :twisted:  :lol:

So Pacers GM found out the real reason... Bods fears that he can not win rings with this team so he does this to cover everything up.












(I am just kidding... but maybe this is what Bods needs to go on... pressure :D)

I strongly feel that this should be a group decision. There has not been much need in the past for voting, but if this isn't the kind of issue that calls for it, I don't know what is.

I feel that a fundamental issue about the league is at issue here: is this your league, or is it all of our league? By making the decision yourself, you are choosing the former. I believe this is not in the spirit of the league.
No one can argue that you have invested the most in the league, that is clear. However, the rest of us have invested a substantial amount of time in this league, and when we elected you as commissioner, we felt you would represent our interests in the league as well as your own.

If people believe you are cheating, even after you have expressed your desire to trash your team, let them vote for your proposal. No one is asking for an open vote. Those who vote for the proposal would be protected. Even those who vote for the proposal for their own personal gain and not the reasons you have given for the decision will be included.
I think that you will find that the overwhelming majority will vote against the proposal. I would even submit that we would need a 2/3 majority to defeat your proposal.

If the proposal is voted down, you will know that you have the support of the league.


I have not felt the need to challenge any of your decisions in the past. But when my own conception (and many others' conception) of the league conflicts so greatly with your own, I feel I must voice my opinion.
Can I go so far as to call it my 'duty' as co-commissioner? Maybe I'm taking this too seriously.

I personally hate the idea.  I agree with everything HornetsGM has said in this thread and I fully agree with his ideas.  There is no need for this and like Goldenstate said, it's not like the Nets have a decade of dominance left.  If Nets insists are parting ways with the two, I also like Raptors' idea (of letting them retire)

yeah...i agree with hornets...it should be voted on... but if not then magic would be one lucky SOB  :lol: i wish i could have trade places with him  :lol:

Alright, well, I've decided not to get rid of Okafor and Pettit.  HOWEVER, while you guys may honestly not want it to happen, I do believe you are wrong.  I still believe that's best for the league.

It's still possible I do this for next year's FA class.  If I do, I will let you know before the end of this years draft.  I'm still debating that.

:bash:

bull :D

thanks. so draft will start now sun?

bods, anyway you could have it decided within this week? :D because I've been having trade talks with others teams depending on this matter.

At this point plan on Okafor and Pettit not being available.  I'm probably going to go with the consensus of the league rather than my own opinion.

Draft starts Sunday, yes.

il vote for being neutral... ill go watever the league has decided