SSBA

EDIT: for the reworked deal look below:
http://phillyarena.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24685#24685

on this very day I finally proclaim the end of the original Celtics.
By moving the senior, better said ONLY, citizen left from the team
I took over years ago (it seems) I officially end an aera here in New England ...

... and start a new one:
The Celtics Are Dead, Long Live The Celtics !!!

oh, there's a deal involved too, two actually:

#1:
the Boston Celtics trade
   PG Rocky Elliott
   PG Nathaniel Van Exel
   SF Carlos 'Dark' Tower (VII)

to the Indiana Pacers for
   SF Richard Jefferson
   PG Parker Kidd
   PG Chase 'The Mover' Prewitt
   Pacers 2011 2nd round draft pick

furthermore, in deal #2
the Boston Celtics trade
   PF Al Jefferson, the lone rider
   PG Chase 'The Mover' Prewitt (see, he did it again ... moving)
   Blazers 2011 1st round draft pick

to the San Antonio Spurs for
   C Etan Thomas
   SF Gerald Chapman
   Magic 2011 1st round draft pick


Celtics agree to this frenzy !  :P

pacers accept

Spurs agree.

Hated moving Thomas as he was a big part of my interior defense...as little as it was.  But getting younger with potential + improving my draft pick this year hopefully will be better in the long run.  

Just got to hope I can struggle into the playoffs again...

reasons to do this:
The youth movement will only get you so far in this world. and I developped young guy after young guy for a long time now, so it's time to get serious about winning.

While my rebonding deficiencies were obvious for some time and I could mask them with great defense and solid offense, it still cost me some games. But last sim, being outrebounded by more than 9 boards, it got obvious something had to be done. In comes Thomas, one of the better at this task and a fine defender and scorer too. He'll make a nice pair with Gasol up front.
I'll miss Al Jefferson, his offense (especially as a non-option) and shot blocking, but that was the price to pay.

To get over that loss, I traded for ... Jefferson.
Rich that is, to upgrade my backup backcourt with a fine veteran. I'll miss Elliott, as early as next season probably, but good PGs are not that hard to find and the draft provides many more.

Will I miss my youth ? Absolutely, these are often projects i developed for seasons and seasons (Rocky, Nat, Carlos, Al), but i hope i found a cue for that: WINNING.
 8)

Celtics trading some of their future for a chance to be a contender. Considering the Gasol & Gino and the rest of the crew age, i think it's pretty good move. Richardson is great sub and i really like Ethan Thomas. Tried to get him myself but then Hoffa came so i gave up. I think he could be a very good compliment to Gasol.


Nice work.

Trade doesn't work financially.

Well, this is off by a 2nd rounders salary, my bad not checking this again after adding Prewitt/Tower.

So I have to talk if adding Walker would be ok with the Pacers since they would have to make a cut ...

part 1 of this deal had to be REWORKED due to salary problems:

before deal #1:
the Indiana Pacers cut
- PF Curtis Borchardt

deal # 1:
the Boston Celtics trade
- PG Rocky Elliott
- PG Nathaniel Van Exel
- SF Carlos 'Dark' Tower (VII)
- PF Rey Walker

to the Indiana Pacers for
- SF Richard Jefferson
- PG Parker Kidd
- PG Chase Prewitt
Pacers 2011 2nd round draft pick


Celtics agree, waiting for the Pacers to agree ...

As this trade thread has been edited several times in the past couple days the Spurs DO NOT agree.  This hould not impact the Celtics/Pacers trade in any way.

Circumstances have caused this deal on the Spurs part to be rescinded by the majority owner who is in a power struggle with a group of minority owners headed by the GM.

As the Spurs majority owner had threatened to blow up the whole deal if changes were made the decision was taken to NOT alter the original (and agreed) Celtics/Spurs deal.

I'm glad to assist the minority owners and the GM on this one, I know from various organisations how top level management, far removed from the daily grind of GM duties, often make business driven decision ignoring the factor "success" on the level of sports.

When a trade has been accepted on the completed trades forum, the only way to back out of it is if a change is made that causes you to not accept the deal.  Your part of the deal has remained unchanged structurally, the only difference is your opinion of what is received (RE: draft pick not as good as when you accepted it).  Unless the Celtics says that he is willing to accept your dismissal of the trade, I'm going to have to hold you to the deal you agreed upon.

He changed the player in yesterday's post and there was an acceptance by the Pacers.  I notified him yesterday that I did not approve.  Then he & the Pacers deleted their posts and changed the trade again.  I should not be stuck with that scenario.

But I will accept your final ruling.  Or I could just delete my original post and make it appear that I never accepted in the first place.

It doesn't matter how much the Celtics/Pacers portion changed.  You ACCEPTED the portion of your trade, and that hasn't changed.  When it's posted on this forum, there's no backing out.  It's always been that way.  



There's a log of all deleted posts.  That would lead down a very dark path.

When you've posted on this foum, you've accepted.  Nobody wants to be in a league with people they can't trust.  The only way I will let you renege out of an accepted deal that hasn't changed is if the Celtics agrees to it.

Imagine this scenario.  Celtics make 2 trades, one with the Pacers, one with you.  Neither trade involves the same players, so they're posted in two separate trade threads.  You accept your trade.  Pacers trade falls through for the Celtics.  He now goes "Oh, since this doesn't work, I don't want to do the Spurs trade!".  Is this fair?  Of course not.  Because you accepted.  The fact that it was in a different thread shouldn't matter.

I could say the same about trust.  Check the log of deleted posts and see that my part of the trade DID change yesterday.  Also check the PMs where I told Celtics that I did not accept the change.  Only after I declared I wouldn't accept did they go back and change the trade again.  So I can't delete a post but the Celtics & Pacers can.  That's smacks of terrible double standards.

So in essence my part of the trade changed TWICE and I no longer have a say.

No, you did have a say.  You agreed.

Here's the ruling:
- If the Spurs part of the trade remains exactly the same, he has already agreed to it.  To cancel it the Celtics have to agree.
- If the Spurs part of the trade changes whatsoever, Spurs have to re-accept.

What about the once posted and accepted rule.  Yesterday Celtics posted a trade involving Gerald Wallace.  Pacers accepted.  Now that trade has been deleted and that is allowed.  Spurs trade did change to include Gerald Wallace and Spurs did not accept that change.

Celtics even sent this PM to me announcing the change in the trade.

You're part of the trade is now:
furthermore, in deal #2
the Boston Celtics trade
PF Al Jefferson, the lone rider
PG Chase 'The Mover' Prewitt (see, he did it again ... moving)
Blazers 2011 1st round draft pick

to the San Antonio Spurs for
C Etan Thomas
SF Gerald Chapman
Magic 2011 1st round draft pick

Correct?



Is that your originally agreed upon trade?  If yes, then you are held by it.    The reason Pacers and Celtics were working on another is because they didn't have my ruling.

If the current Celtics/Spurs trade is the same as the original Celtics/Spurs trade, you are held to it, because you have already accepted it.

Special rules for some....Celtics can delete an accepted trade.  Spurs can't.   :(

Special rules?  Hardly.  Their trade was never valid because the only way another trade with different teams can be posted is if the original trade is pronounced dead and 24 hours have gone by.  The 2nd Celtics/Pacers trade was posted because they thought they were screwed out of your end of the deal.  Since they're not, and since the waiting period hasn't gone by, that trade was never valid.

You can flip this either way, you're trying to find a loophole out of a trade you have accepted.  No matter what's gone on since the original post, YOU HAVE ACCEPTED YOUR END OF THE TRADE.  Let's not lose site of that.  If you didn't like the trade, don't accept it.

I don't see any reason to rescind the deal with the Spurs.

First, it is now the same deal as before (whatever ideas there were thrown around inbetween)

Second, it is two seperate deals, that just have/happen to be posted simultaneously. Whatever happens in the other deal has nothing to do with our deal.

And third, I don't like your reason for NOT doing the deal at all, since it's related to what happened AFTER our deal was agreed upon from both sides.

i agree to bods and tom. the first trade of Celtics/Spurs have been agreed and could have been done. Only problem was that i didn´t calculated my trade with the celtics right. So i had to change the trade with the celtics. we will find a solution before deadline.

now finally part 1 of this deal could be finalized without cuts. It had to be REWORKED due to salary problems with the original post:

deal # 1:
the Boston Celtics trade
- PG Rocky Elliott
- PG Nathaniel Van Exel
- C Vladimir Stepania
Nets 2011 1st round draft pick

to the Indiana Pacers for
- SF Richard Jefferson
- PG Parker Kidd
- PG Chase Prewitt
Pacers 2011 2nd round draft pick


Celtics agree, waiting for the Pacers to agree ...

pacers agree

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :D  :D  :D  :D

finally, the reasons(s) for doing this are pretty obvious:

Not only do i get outrebounded 80% of the time, but i'm dead last (by a landslide) in opp rebounds. Hope Thomas can provide some help.

ande RJ i brought in to have a veteran backup behind Manu and Lenard, providing strong defense and some offense at a legit size (the experiment starting Van Exel over Manu did show that good young Nat is too undersized tp perform at SG).

Parker Kidd will back up Chauncey for now, but i'm sure he won't have to carry that burden full time, maybe Escamilla gets a chance now too ...


I'm completely wrecked now btw., gonna get myself a nice cold beer tonight ...
 :idea:

Me too....uh, this is just too much even for the real GM's  :)