SSBA

arenas
Hayden strickland
hawks 1st -- 2010
spurs 2nd -- 2012

for

ray
sharman
magic 1st rounder -- 2011

Spurs agree.

erm....wow.

Sorry spurs, you've made some terrific moves as of late.  I do not think this is one of them at all.  

Sure, Arenas is far from perfect.  But you traded a 25 year old with A- defense for a 32 year old with B- defense, AND gave up a possible top 3 pick (probable top 5).  I do not think Ray is going to make a significant enouh improvement to justify that.

Arenas' better defense basically manifested itself in steals which was more than offset by his turnovers even as a 3rd option.  Also his shooting has been erratic besides the fact that he & Russell don't co-exist very well.  Russell's best play has come before the Spurs acquired Arenas and in the few games Arenas has missed this year.  This move was to open up the floor for Russell.

Ray Allen should help push me into the playoffs this year and hopefully next.  I have a solid youngster behind him in Schabinger that should develop.  Sharman also gives me a young backup pg to develop.

Love this trade for the Magic...
get younger, with an excellent scorer and decent to good defender, and also get a lottery pick this year.

Let's see what ray Allen brings...  the loss of that pick does not hurt if the Spurs make the playoffs.  But with Parker, Allen, and Russel defending the perimeter, opposing teams, bombs away.

Why?  It's the Hawks pick....

The first time i saw the deal, i also thought about the same thing. I even thought u raped MagicGM. Because Arenas' TOs is outrageous. I got a guy named, Allen iverson, who was such a liability for me because he caused me a lot of games with his Turn-overs.

IMO, the deal is a fair deal for both teams or a deal that would give the Magic a slight edge. Ray Allen is clearly the better player compared to Arenas. But does can the talent loss be compensated by the intangibles?  (the swaps of picks)

On the bright side, the Spurs has a pretty good team right now.

Etan Thomas 12.8 ppg13.9rpg 1.9bpg
Mihm 16.1ppg 11.7rpg 2.1bpg
Chase Russell 12.0 ppg   4.5 rpg   3.9 apg   1.4 spg
Ray Allen 25.0 ppg 5.3 rpg 4.4 apg 1.6 spg
Tony Parker 16.2ppg 4.7 rpg 7.2 apg 1.4 spg

Perimeter D:
Russell: B
Allen: B-
Parker: C+

I don't see that combo winning many games, especially in the playoffs.

But SGs have actually shot a lower % against the Magic than against the Spurs this year.   So as I stated earlier much of Arenas' defensive rating is based on his ability to get steals.

On the other hand Arenas' 43.7 FG% and 36.6 3PT% will be easily replaced by Allen on a bad day.  Not to mention that the old man manages more rebounds & more assists in less minutes than the young whippersnapper.

Its not like Arenas is a huge upgrade defensively compared to Ray Allen. At least Ray Allen isnt a TO monster, although he average 3.+ per game. Arenas TO numbers is one third of a team's total TO. He's much more a liability than an asset.

Well, last year SG's shot 46% against Allen.  So we'll see.

And we'll see how he does when he's not combined with Jason Kidd on the perimeter.

And SGs shot 44.9% against Arenas when he was with the Spurs.  Not that big of a difference.   :wink:

And offensively Ray ray is much better.

But...

Is giving the (hawks projected top 3) for Magic future 1st worth compensating the deal? Well at least u got a good team right now. :D

I think my Spurs pick just got better.

It really all depends on how good the Magic pick will be next year....and only time will tell.

Guys, give the Spurs a break.

I know exactly what it feels like being a bad (non-playoff) team year after year. None of us wants to be the last team never been to the big dance.

Will Ray lead him there? Probably, I'd give him a higher chance now than with Arenas. Because Ray can score a lot, really a LOT, at a nice % too. His defense was all you could look for - with the Magic (as Nets statet), so the Spurs can only hope it was NOT a matter of teaming with Kidd (which i don't believe, it wasn't even better on days 30-35)

But he's old too and in 2 years he's nothing more than a big expiring contract. So the window of opportunity for the Spurs is now ...


For the Magic, well, Arenas is young and defensively a great partner for Kidd (For the one or two years Kidd has left). Extending him won't come cheap at all, too. What puzzels me thoughh is the addition of a very good future PG (you heard it here first) Sharman. Look at his numbers ...

Then they get a 1yr earlier first, which I believe will be pretty high (the Magic 2011 one now won't be). So look for this deal to be terribly onesided in 3 years. Who cares, this deal is about NOW not tomorrow.


Good job, Doug !
 :lol:

sorry but what the hell are you doing here...

you traded for aging SG to get into the POs?
if you don´t win it in the next two years this trade will very onesided..
you traded a possible top5 pick and arenas for ray?????
i agree that arenas isn´t as good as his ratings and you should trade him but also a top 5 first round pick? nah....
you could have waited till the end of the season and trade the pick then or draft the next superstar SG.

PLEASE ...

The last superstar SG was taken 4 drafts ago.
06: Petitt #2. Others from 06: LaDon Curry
07: best SG Devin Hinkle. Nuff said
08: best SG Patrick Gatling. Superstar? No way.
09: Keogan, Wells, Marion. Superstar? Maybe in 2-3 seasons.

This pick wouldn't have helped the Spurs as much as Ray for at least 3 more seasons, thats' the reality

I disagree about Keogan and Gatling.  Wells might be too.

SG has been one of the deeper positions in the last 2 drafts, and looks good for this next one as well.

Also before this last sim the Hawks pick was #9....they are currently a half a game out of being the #7 pick.  There is no guarantee that I gave up a top 3 or 5 pick.

And as the Nets pointed out in another thread FA isn't necessarily the best way to build a team.  A lot of top players resign and the ones that are left are chased by a few teams.  If I had passed on signing Arenas to his big contract demands there was little chance I could compete for FAs with my low win rating.  And resigning Arenas for big $$ wasn't a good decision IMO.

Now I have two years to improve my win rating and look forward to free agency.  And Ray will help a lot in that regards.  In this year's ultra competitive West Allen could give me the slight edge I need to make the playoffs....winning a series then will depend a lot on who I match up with.  But just making the playoffs is a start.

From the Free Online Dictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/superstar):
Noun 1. superstar - someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field

Well, in that context we have a league of about 50 superstars.

From the mind of CelticsGM:
Noun superstar: someone who can take a team on his back - on a regular basis - and carry it to victory regardless of opponent, weather and Dow Jones decrease.

In that context, none of these rookies is a superstar by any means. They all got the tools to get there but, as initially stated, are some seasons away. Great players? Yes. Superstars now? No.

the fact that Sharman's TC has gone up and down is what scares me..

Arenas is being a 3rd option and averaging 19ppg despite his poor shooting. His 2.5 spg is for my team despite the abysmal 4.5topg.

this deal gives me more defense.

Arenas and Kidd alone could go as high as 5spg.

Dwight-Allen-Kidd doesn't seem to work.

Allen's improvement in defense on the last tc, was the opportunity for me to trade him, IMO

then the Hawks pick, looking at the depth this draft could possibly have, especially with those seniors being a good-time scorer, I think that it gives the hawks pick more value..

for the spurs, its also good for them, IMO. Etan-Mihm-Ray-Parker, is a good combination not to mention that Rusell could be a good role player as well (damn you should have dealt him to me :D). though he'll probably have an abysmal defense team, isn't that what my team had last year?

all i can say is....brother like brother  :lol: sixers-celitcs, magic-spurs   :lol:  a one two punch   :lol:  manny pacquaio

yeah...spurs now will improve... but they killed their future....by trading away a 25 starting SG and a lottery pick for a 32 star SG.....

toronto...your pick will be slightly less valuable coz i think they would improve for NOW....

I just feel terrible for this quidnunc boy above. ;)

He never cease to crack me up :D

I just wish I could have worked the "Manila Connection" to perfection and deal with all three teams there.

Well, Sixers (Ginobili) and Heat (Gasol) were done, Ray unfortunately didn't work out ...

 8)

Im going to beat you up again in school today.  :lol:

I'm not sure. I think they could now average 100 ppg....and give up 105.

had a little glitch when I posted the trade...

cunningham is now strickland :D

thanks!

new deal:

Spurs agree to amended deal.  

It is what we really agreed to in our long YM talks.  I just thought I was getting an even better deal by giving up Cunningham instead of Strickland.   :wink:

lol

those damn names had me confused.

I was fixing my dc last night when I figured that out... I was lacking a damn SF from the deal.

Now wait a moment, this deal is getting worse by the minute. It was terrible onesided towards the Magic before but now by adding his (only) backup SF instead of one of his 7 PFs in Cunningham even the current season looks about all but over for the Spurs ...

And furthermore,
- why does MAGIC post that change of the guy the SPURS give ?
- i would deeply object reworking a deal that has been accepted, discussed and is a day old (sorry Fendi, but thats nothing personal, just an ethical question)

well, if thats the case, why not he post it then? :D

"sorry"

as for him giving up the only SF he had, as he said, we agreed on it last night and I just got confused with the surnames. apology accepted?

heres what he told me last night



however, I gave Sharman in order to land Strickland.

Actually Tom, the amended deal was the one that was agreed to.  He wanted to give up Profit and I said that then I would give him Cunningham.  The final sticking point in the deal was the two small contracts.  The choice I gave him was:

Sharman for Strickland

or Profit for Cunningham.

When he didn't post it that way I thought I was getting a bargain.  He PMed me and asked if it was ok to amend as that was our agreement in principle.  Being a fair person I told him to post the change & that I would agree.

thats why I love the spursgm  :oops:


















 :?

Well, justice has been served now ...  :)


but then again, this is NOT overly good for the Spurs who did this deal to win NOW !
 :?

well, he could have Abdur Rahim playing SF and Russell playing backup  for both the sf and sg position...

We've seen Sar's capabilities as a starter :D

I think I'll give the spurs the call on this. whether he'd likely to deal strickland instead of cunningham.. will be his call... since I made a glitch on posting the deal.. :D

Sunday is going to be the biggest day for my SSBA career since the RocketsGM accepted our Yao+Peja trade.

I'm going to see the draft preview where I have a current top 3 pick, and the 11th.

I'm also going to see if that Spurs pick will be better or worse after that deal.


I can't wait.

from now on, NEVER edit the first post of a thread after it has already been accepted.  EVER.

If there was a mistake, post it as a post in the thread.  Do NOT ever, EVER edit the first post in the thread after it has been accepted.  Even if that's what you guys originally intended.

That's why we should make it mandatory that the acceptance post hast to include the quote of the original deal.

I give both Spurs and Magic the benefit of the doubt here, but I don't like changing deals after they have been widely discussed (don't you think the Blazers would like to change something in their Pistons deal now after all the replys ripping him ... )
 :?  :?  :?

I agree.  That's a good practice to follow and a good way for people to prevent things from happening.

Either way, i"ll be checking both users pm's in the database.

If it's simply a typo then I don't see the harm in fixing a deal, even if it has been widely discussed. There shouldn't be a gm here that would refuse to amend a trade that was posted incorrectly.

This wasn't a trade that was re-worked, it was just a trade that was fixed to adhere to the original deal. It's not setting a bad precedent. In fact, I think it's setting a good precedent in that a gm (Spurs) did the right thing and agreed to amend the trade after the other gm found that he had posted it incorrectly.

If a gm ever asks you to rework a correctly posted trade that he has accepted, you can, and should, refuse.

Well, both guys agreed and commented multiple times to this deal and then a day later the players are reworked.

There has been a wide discussion why Sharman, a promising young PG has been added and MagicGM explained it, too. There was just never a word about that he gets some young guy with upside back, too (which Strickland IS and Cunningham is NOT, I hope we agree on that).

It's these little facts that make this "change" look uncomfortable ...

I think that, when posting a trade, you should put the full name.  NOT JUST THE SURNAME.

Team A trades:
John Smith
Team A First Rounder in 2011

Team B trades:
Joe Schmoe
Team C Second Rounder in 2010

that should be the template.  (this just avoids any confusion)

Yes and no.

Getting at first sight what the deal is about should be in everyones interest but please let's do this on common sense. I don't wanna get to a point where the SSBA legal department has to create our templates ...

Nobody is going to get punished for not posting correctly but there should be a way of doing things.  I shouldn't have to go trying to decipher what you mean.  There's an amount of necessary information that needs to be shown.

it was on yahoo messenger to begin with.

but we had some discussion after the deal to be edited through PM.