SSBA

Doug Christie
Chris Mihm
2008 Raptors First
2009 Raptors First

for

Shawn Marion

and

Lorenzo Ellis

for

 Malik Allen
Chris Duhon
Amal MaCaskill

Raptors cut Robert Horry. Will also post in cut forum.

how will i have to cut? I'm giving up 4 and receiving 3

My bad- it's ME that has to cut a player.

well, a one-two punch of Boozer-Marion should be devastating. A lineup of

Ostertag
Boozer
marion
Deng
Cassell

should be a solid punch this year, and cap space will need to be sepnt on C/PG.

I'm thrilled. Losing Mihm hurts, and so does the loss of Ellis, but neither was an exceptional player, like marion is.

Does this mean it's approved?
I have not seen a player cut yet, either...

Jazz changed Ellis to SG so I guess it's accepted...

I like to think there is format to these things...

And asking a question, imo, is not an approval.  Which means that change to SG was a little premature...

And since the Raptors have not cut a player yet, the deal cannot even happen.

Changing a players position, IMO, is a sign of approval.  Would you request a change on a player you don't have?

However, until raptors agrees to cut a player, it's not official.  It wouldn't require another approval from the jazz, since a cut player on the raptors side has no bearing on his accepting the trade.

Sorry, forgot to post the cut.

Wow, Marion is well traveled for such a great player. What is this now, his 4th team? Overall this is a very good deal for both teams.

Yeah I hope there wasn't a problem with me prematurely adding the other posts, if the deal was to have fallen through I would have gone back and edited them.

Yeah, I think it is a great deal for both teams. If Mihm was to ever get to B inside he would be a 20-10 guy. And who knows about Ellis?

But Marion is proven. I'll go with that beside Boozer.

I think it is safe to say that I had acted prematurely on the Kidd trade, but I finally got the young PG with good potential I needed to fill his shoes....when francis' contract ends I'll be able to resign Ellis (100 loyalty) to go along with kirilenko. Until then, I'm sure ellis will overtake francis at some point as the head guard, and francis isn't that bad of a 6th man I might add, at 6'3" he could give me some minutes at SG as well. Any other holes are taken care of as I still have all of my picks, plus some nice extras :).

Good for the Raptors....  Marions a good 2nd option, and one of the top 5 defenders in the league.  Mihm is replaceable...  Just above the standard MLE center....  He would need to get to at least a B+ to be a 20/10 guy, and that is not likely.  He is hitting 42% right now...

If Ellis develops, this trade could work for the Jazz.  Right now, it makes them worse.  Only one player with an A- offensive rating (Giricek), and one with B+ offensive rating (AK47).

Going to be tough for the JAzz to score...  5 game lead over the Suns in the playoff chase.  I think the Warriors, Rockets, and Suns now could catch the Jazz.

respectable analysis, but my ppg actually dropped from 10th in the league to 16th, you could blame this on francis too, but his ppg actually improved since marion came. The 2nd game I had marion, I scored  a pathetic 57 points, just this last sim, i had I believe 60 something in one game...I don't even think i hit 90 points in most of the wins that I had with Marion. Yes I'm losing marion's remarkable defense, but i already have kirlenko to cover that position...My team's philosophy seemed to turn too defensive, that is being too scared to lose, than just going out there and beating teams. Marion was an A at defense at SG, (christie is also an A defense). What I lacked with scoring I make up with the better scoring and rebounding inside. For what christie lacks in scoring, I'll make up for it by having ellis as my 6th man. I also get to move Booth's small 231 lb. frame to PF and potentially take even more advantage of his shotblocking abilities, Campbell also gets a few more minutes with this trade. But the main push behind this deal was the future...I still can make a run this year, but i'm more concerned about future runs and I think I set myself up nicely for that especially with the added 1st round picks.

Man, I feel like the guy who sees the girl he just gave his letterman's jacket to making out with another guy.

No response from the Jazz on my easy fix to the trade either (sent by pm)

Mihm makes this a great deal for the Jazz...he's a very solid C and the fact that Christie comes in defensively and Ellis who will probably be a very good offensive player within 2 seasons makes them even more bonuses...despite losing a great SF in Marion they make up for it in depth and youth

I think the Raptors gave up a little too much but with they're cap flexibility it will probably end up working very nicely for them..Cassell, Boozer and Marion is a nice trio to have

What was your original trade, Hornets?

Your fix to the trade was to sign veterans to package along with declerq or welsh i believe, which can't work because both fall under the same problem. I apologize for not responding, but i had already sent to the raptors to post the trade.  I spent a lot of time going back and forth between teams and I just wanted to be done...it's practically finals week for me, i'm doing what i can.

by the way, that's one depressing analogy

Sign and Trade.  You could have signed 1 free agent, replaced DeClercq with him, and it would have worked.

oh well then I screwed up with my understanding, but ya know when it comes down to it...I liked the raptors over the hornets, and then the hornets added some picks, but the raptors countered by adding the same picks. I just had to make a decision, and I thought francis was going to be around a year longer than what I found, and i found that mihm was more better than tsakalidas than i thought.

Yes, but this brings up the dilemma of making a post on the completed trades forum then backing out of it.  IMO once it's posted here, you have a right to finish it through, especially when I responded with what was wrong BEFORE you posted the prior trade.

And raptorsgm especially new that you could include s&t players in with multiple players since he brought it up:
http://phillyarena.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5209#5209

I have to contemplate this on the ride home.  This trade may be cancelled.

It's just wrong.  When you have a trade posted in the completed trades forum, you have to honor that.  That's why it's completed.  The fact that you didn't do your homework and check the rules, then didn't ask questions on how to fix a minor issue doesn't change the fact.

I agree, once you post on the complete trade thread and agree on it, you cann't say no.

I'm fine with that, as long as it's not structured differently than what the original deal entailed.

about the checking the rules, i thought he meant to add on veterans contracts...I was just stuck on teh belief that to have declerq involved, I could only send him alone, but yes like i said previously, by all means I'd want to honor my post as long as it's not different than what I agreed to. Just tell me what i'd have to do.

alright, i reviewed that thread...so basically, i drop some guys and then put sign a bunch of veteran's contracts, ship them over in the deal. and this works with mulitple vets did we decide?

Sorry Raptors, great trade, it's not going to happen though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but essentially things go like this.  Hornets and I discuss why the deal as posted doesn't work.  Hornets tries working it.  He's waiting for a response on a revision on a deal that was accepted, and while he's waiting, another trade is posted, with a player he thinks he already has acquired.  Meanwhile, he's never informed that his deal, which again has already been accepted, is cancelled.

Sorry, someone's not getting screwed over like that, not on my watch.

Maybe had the deal been announced as cancelled.  But it wasn't.  In fact, even now it says "nevermind for now".  To me, that means that the deal is still on.

Details of this situation are being posted on this completed forum as we speak.

Raptors, as someone who posted an article titled "The Moral Issue of Responding To PM's", you can see why these actions are needed.  The completed trades forum is not the place to be posting for players who are still on the block.

Hey, I understand completely.

But what I won't do is take any of the blame for this. None whatsoever. I got a Pm from the Jazz that said post it, so I posted it.

No worries.

Actually, the more I thought about it today, the more I didn't like this trade.

So I'm pretty happy that we are having this moral issue debate. :)