SSBA

Sim 7 ahead of us, the All Star break is behind us and the season will start to get serious from this point on. The Clippers are just one game behind me for the pacific division crown and this sim is crucial for me to gain some serious advantage and to keep that 2nd seed hope alive. my schedule is so - so, facing one of the worst leagues in the leagues to playing one of the best, so we'll see what's gonna happen. but as usual, i'm going with some predictions:

Kings @ Hawks; on the first day of the sim i'm facing the hawks. the team with sub .50 record and out of the playoffs for now. they can surprise every team and knowing my dificulties when i play against non - playoff team i don't feel comfortable about this game. off course, i need Tmac to explode and since Alan Houston has only C defense i expect Tmac to carry my team to W
       
Cavs @ Kings; new and improve Cavs coming to one of the hottest arenas around where my team is 15 - 3. they have frontcourt advantage with Lamar Odom and Zidrunas Iglauskas facing Brad Miller and Chris Webber and Andre Miller's A defense could cause some problem for one of the best PG in the league Mike Bibby. but with Brent Barry out for this game and practicaly no one to guard 2nd scorer of the league Tracy Mcgrady i need only one of my 3 others bigs to have good night + home court advantage and i consider that should be enough for the W

Kings @ Warriors; the Warriors are struggling mightly and they're miles from the playoffs at this moment. last score was 107:96, Kings W. i hope this one should be no diferent. Kings W

Hawks @ Kings; sub .50 team coming to Arco Arena. everything else except easy win should be a shocker. Kings W

Kings @ Bulls; going to windy city to play against the dark horse of the east. tough game for both teams. last meeting Kings won 112:99, this time the Baby Bulls will be without their leading scorer and veteran Paul Pierce. can they make without their best player against the pacific division leader? i don't think so. Kings W
 
Kings @ Rockets; very strange game. Rockets are still a mistery for the most of the league. last meeting: 108:99 Rockets W. they're having one of the best frontcourts in the league in Carloos Boozer and Drew Gooden and a great scorer in Michael Finley + the home court so i say L

76ers @ Kings; beat them pretty easily in Wachovia Center by 10, this one should be no diferent. Kings W

Kings @ Warriors; going to Oakland for the second time in one sim. this one scares me cause i know CPU won't allow me to beat someone 2 times in their own backyard, so i'll say L

Kings @ Mavericks; it can't get any worse than this. finishing my sim with a trip to Dallas. only manage to beat them 1 time this year but i'm afraid that wont be the case in this one. Kings L

Final prediction: 6 - 3. at best...

T_T i hope we beat you this time around..

FOCUS AI.. FOCUS..

AI can focus as much as he wants to, but he's terribly undersized in matchup with Tmac. there is no help! :)

Bad news, he going to be my PG again. :D

i belive that's a bad news for Mike James or John Salmons :)

Looking for a 5-2, potential 6-1.

The Nets visit the ACC, but the game in NO will be a tough win.

well, I'm done with my experimenting for now. I've got to win some games.

With Pierce's injury, Manu Griffin will be playing SF, a big contrast from his usual C position.  My other option was Allen, but Griffin has C outside, C handles and a good A:TO ratio.  It'll be interesting to see how he performs

I play the Heat and Suns, my two trading partners.  That's fitting.

If I'm lucky, I'll go 4-4

kings:  You could easily beat me twice but I think a split is more likely...my team has a sub .500 record but since my bad fist sim I'm 17-13 which is a .567 win %, that would put me in the 6 spot in the east but I can't take back my 2-6 start but I have 8 tough games including Kings (2), Nets, Wizards and Sixers to name a few, I can expect a 4-4 sim

Any idea what time simmage will be, Bods?

probably an hour or so.

sim is running...c'mon, it's 2 in the mourning here, i need to sleep

Then go to sleep.  There's never a guarantee on when it will be run.  I do have a life to attend to.l

i haven't rushed you, relax...

5-2, just like I hoped for.

Increased my lead in the East to 9.5 games over the Nets.

B Diddy's To's back down to 4.8.

Garnett comes back and I go 7-2 much better then my last few sims.

Wow, STEAMROLLED the Nets 114-69 despite Yao fouling out in EIGHT MINUTES.

Yao has 51 (!!) on the Hornets, but they beat me by 4.

Yao also goes for 44/16 on the Spurs.

And not Player of the Week. You kidding me?

Wiz beat me by 2. That stinks.

Look at Hoffa's 2nd game with the Warriors...

Araujo had a 55 point game!!!
Went 4-6, with my depth chart all screwed up (Gasol at C, Araujo at PF, and Cardinal starting at SF)

Team shot very, very well...  Can't wait until tuesday, when I see these guys at their correct positions...

damn.  defense went into the shitter when Dalembert and Battier were out.  This is where depth hurt.  I had a C+ defender and B defender backing those guys up.  real bad.  Came back a bit at the end though.  In one sim I went from giving up 90 ppg to 92 ppg.  Unreal.

But I'll be back.  But I NEED Dalembert and Battier in that frontline.  Injuries in the playoffs and I'm done..

Can't beat the Raps.  Not in the 3 years this league has been running.  And it still continues.  This time, Emeka whoops yao, gets him to foul out in 8 minutes, drops 21/10.  But Mihm owned Marc Jackson.  Absolutely destroyed him.  

And Peja just torched Tim Thomas. As expected, of course

 :bash:

But man....did I give up points those games without Sammy and Shane.  Even the game I won...was a 125-114 shootout with the Hawks.

4-5 sim.  With the injuries I had, I won't complain too much.  Time to get back on track next sim

TT and Marc Jackson were absolute jokes.  Gawd, if I have an injury in the playoffs I'm doomed.

You can't touch me, son.

What a series it would be if you and I met in the ECF.

went 5-4 with 3 games without Miller.

Tmac: 52!

Webber 20 rebounds!

Hoffa combined 77 points and 35 rebounds in 2 games against me!?!?!?!?!?!

Eddie House has been a joke all year :)

TT actually played ok D on Peja holding him to 16-36 shooting.

Of course, Baron torched Chauncey, AND put the clamps on him.

congratulations to Kirilenko for establishing his first career triple double. 15 points 11 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, but against the homely Knicks.

Bibby also went with triple double

Hard to believe Yao is the League's 8th highest scorer...as a 2nd option.

Went 2-1 with Dirk now out for 7 days, my team is in trouble.  Bron D went down at SG from A+ to A :cry: .

Well, with Dirk out this will be an excellent chance to solidify my position as best team in the League.

My games/sim gets a lot lower now, as I have only 30 games left to play in 50 days.

2-6 without Shaq Daddy.

Come back soon big man!

just lost the 2nd seed and the pacific division lead  :puke:  :puke:  :puke:  :puke:  :puke:  :puke:

your doing alot better than I expected...I was hoping for a late lotto pick.

keep dreamin...

first 4 games of the sim I gave up an average of 111 ppg on 46.5% shooting.

Welcome back Shane and Samuel  :tup:

Shot the ball decent enough at 44% fg, 42.3% 3pt.  Already noted the defensive difficulties with Shane and Dalembert out (not to be unexpected with a C+, B and B defenders in my starting lineup).

Slow game spead really helped my starters stay on the floor, which is now so apparently obvious I need to do with my terrible defensive bench.

Have I mentioned how terribly, horribly bad Jackson and Tim Thomas are?  Outside of the layup drill they gave up, Marc Jackson did have a 28/12 outburst against the Hawks.  HIs other 2 games as a starter?  0 pts and 4 pts.  Thanks marc :tup:

Thomas?  As a starter averaged 7.1 pts on 37% shooting.  Need more from a B defender, jackass.

Other than that, liked the inside focus and pacing.  Emeka had a very good sim.  25.4 pts, 12.5 rebounds, 2.1 blocks, 48% shooting.  Very, very good.  driving the ball inside really brings more opportunities for him.

Pettit had one of his lesser sims (23.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 5.3 apg).  Not all that worried, he still got 19.5 shots/game (gets about 20.1 average, so no big deal).  He was just inconsistent on converting.  shot 43.4%.  He's a career 47.5% shooter, so I'm not worried yet.  And he did actually make and take more 3's than he normally does.

Billups was up and down more than a vietnamese whore.  5 of 9 games he didn't score double digits.  Unacceptable for a 3rd option.   Did do a very good job of distributing the ball (9.1 assists, 3/1 a/to).

Dalembert was a man possessed when he came back.  14.2 pts, 13 boards, 3.5 blocks, 47.5% shooting.  Love to see that from my frontline.  I'll have to test this inside focus a little more if it's going to generate that kind of results.  Really killed some people on the glass (57-33 vs. the Warriors, 57-47 against the Bucks).

I'm not all that upset.  Had some very tough games (@Wolves w/KG, @Raptors, @Pacers, Hornets, @Nuggets), games that would have been tough fully healthy.  With no Shane and Sammy, I guess I couldn't have asked for too much.

 :lol:

Alright, I just realized how bad it was.

PF's were shooting 37.5% against me for the year heading into this sim.  SF's about 38.5-39%.

C's this sim still only shot 38.3%

PF's this sim shot 46%.  SF's 48.3%, 50% from 3 pt.

Argh.  No defense playing m f'ers.

4-3 sim for the Cavs. Not bad. Barry+George aren't even here yet, and they will be huge pieces once they arrive. The last 4 sims will be bittersweet, as I move up in the standings(hopefully), but my draft pick gets worse. Hey, I still have the warriors pick... :)

Day 69: Wolves at Cleveland - KG goes for 56 and 18( :hail: ); Cavs win 93-88. Nice...

had another great sim 5-2 I believe...

I like the way my backups are playing. Al Harrington came up big when Dwight was in fould trouble, and ended up with a double-double.

Jameer is playing great.

I'm already seeing the future on Dwight.

0-8 for the Hawks...I scored a lot but couldn't stop anyone, I was in the playoff race but this sims virtually kills that hope...I haven't looked at stats but it was a horribly disappointing sim

Keep it up.   :tup:
Got your 2nd rounder...

lol, I went from 9th in the east to 13th in one sim...i hope that pick does you well

I hoped for 4-4 and got it.  Won my first 4 games by an average of 11 points per game and then lost my last 4 by an average of 16.  

Kobe averaged 23/6/2.5 in the first sim with the Bucks, not bad considering one of his games was one in which he pretty much didn't play.

first sim this year nothing to complain.
6-0
yea it was a home court heavy schedule but with my struggels all season long at home i couldn´t expect that.
Ladies and Gentlemen i am proud to introduce you the first triple double of Jermaine O'Neal. Against Amare he had 16pts,13reb and drums please 10 blks  :lol:
he followed this amzaing game with a 34pts,19reb,9 ass performance.
in one game fisher had also almost a triple double but missed it with 2 stls.
biggest surprise this sim:
In back to back games against duncan jamsion avg. as backup at pf:
23ppg,9rbpg,2ass,1stl and 1blk.
Maybe i should let him start there and move JO to C and run as fast possible  :lol:
Another great performance against the nets. JO had 34 against dalembert and redd scored 35 on pettit.

I had a great sim... 5-1 despite Eddie Jones being injured.

I lost in Indiana, but beat the Mavs and Magic in their own buildings! In between I also had the Nuggets for lunch!

KingsGM, after a combined 10-3 in the last two sims... I am back where I belong: top of the Pacific division!  :)

don't be so sure, still plenty of games to play 8)

Think this new team has a real future, especially when my DC is normal...

Araujo had 31 ppg, 11 rpg, 3 apg on 53% field.  Also now has the GS record for points, FG, and FT in a game.  Hopefully he plays as well at the center spot next sim

Gasol had 22 ppg, 10 rpg, 4 apg, and 2.3 bpg on 46% field.  As a 2nd option...  Wow.  If he can maintain those blocks at the PF spot, these two will be a deadly combination.

Brian Cardinal had 15 ppg on 50% field and 53% from three.  Normally not a starter (and will not be in the future).  Was apparently the 3rd option.  Shot incredibly well, but his defense liekly hurt alot... 20 mpg as a PF and SF back-up is perfect for him.

Hinrich racked up only 6.4 ppg as a non-option, but those 11.3 apg vs only 2.1 TO's more then makes up for it.  His scoring will go back up as a 3rd option, I am guessing...  And passing to Araujo and Gasol will probably keep his assist numbers quite high.

With 28 games left, and 19 of them at home, watch for a Warriors push...  Very little chance of getting back in the playoff race, but may be the spoiler team no one wants to face....

oh please, dont talk about araujo, i'm getting sick!

Ah, your jealousy is painful to see   :wink:

not so much jealousy, more of a fact that he combined for 77 points and 38 rebounds in 2 game against me  :shock:  :?  :evil:  :?:  :puke:  :eek3:

Yeah, Hoffa murdered me, got Emeka into foul trouble and forced him to only play 21 minutes.  But Hoffa only got 3 boards, which was big considering I won the glass 57-33.

But I'm glad Hoffa's still out west.

That was a weird game...
And it was probably Gasol that got Emeka in trouble, considering Gasol was at center that game.
Sammy was too quick for Araujo to guard (hence the 22 pts and 17 boards), and Gasol too quick for Emeka to guard.

96-91, and you outrebounded me by 24, and we shot basically the same percentages...

Good thing I won the steals battle by 5, and the TO battle by 10, or it would have been ugly...

Good thing McGrady went for 52 points on 20 of 28 shooting that first game.  Just one of those games when he was unstoppable...  :oops:

Ah, you're right.

And I hadn't even noticed.  Not only did Pau get Emeka in foul trouble (5 fouls in 21 minutes), but Emeka then got Pau in foul trouble (5 fouls in 25 minutes).

Odd game.  But scary frontline you have.

Thanks..  Hope they do as well together in their natural positions...
The exact opposite of your frontline...  Great Defense vs Great Offense.

Yeah, but it's not like you guys are bad defensively, by any stretch of the imagination.

And neither are Emeka or Sammy bad offensively either, particularly Emeka...   :D
Sammy is doing surprisingly well, especially with that D+ out...

Yeah, he's shooting actually shooting 43% from the field and 60% from the line :tup:

He can be....frustrating at times.  But then again, who can't?  Shaq's 56% ft shooting and TD's 61% would probably drive me crazy as well.

Oh stop it with the compliments, you're making me sick...      :puke:

 :)

yeah, that's why ic ould not take the Biedrins/Ben Wallace/Foyle frontcourt...  If any of them shot over 60% from the line, it was a good day  :x

of course, a Biedrins/Wallace frontcourt did win a championship :)

Sigh...  Please, don't remind me...  :(

If anyone is interesting in reading recaps from the Celtics latest 0-7 trip, please send a note to inbox@depression.com (we're not even allowed to have our own adress there, it's really a "hotel" I wouldn't recommend for vacation at all !)  :roll:

Otherwise just make some fun on these guys, the earned it.  :cry:




And finally: Welcome back, MoPete, you're a good one !!!

Well, at least that first pick is looking more and more likely to be yours...

And Mo Pete played better for you then he has for anyone else...

Too bad we've never had a draft near as god as the one with Petit, Ferry, etc.

Then that first pick would look great.

yeah, these last 2 drafts have been pretty bad (last years and this upcoming years).

I may have to begin editing the drafts so there are 2-3 impact/star type players in every class.  not sure yet though.

I think that would be a wise idea.

What you could do (I heard this idea from someone else, can't remember who) is to make like 5 guys a year with the names and attributes of former NBA players (MJ, Bird, Wilt, etc.)

There are more than enough to do that for a long, long time. Or you could also use the attributes and names of draft eligible players of recent.

It only takes 5 or so to make it worth while.

Just an idea.

LeBron's defense is at A now. How?

The move back to SG?

Move back to SG? He was at A+ at SG...

don´t think it is a good idea. this year draft isn´t so bad not a supestar but a lot of great players. I really like the idea that there won´t be a next LB or petit every sim year.
Like in the real nba there isn´t every year a tim duncan ask the bulls... :lol:

Also i am not sure but i think LB has been an A+ at SG   :?

dunno.  

The way the program is now, it says he's an A+ at sf, A at sg and A- at pf, B+ at center and A at pg.

not necessarily a superstar/hall of famer every year, but I think there should be stars every year.  The entire point of the draft is for the bad teams to get better.  If the top of the draft classes are so weak, the worst team doesn't really have much more chances of improving than the 8th worst team.

Well he definitely was A+ on my team and on GS, when at SG.

I just tested it, and this is a save from golden state's.  After he switched him to pf.  When I change positions, he's still listed as an A at SG, on GS's team.  But he definitely was an A+ at some point.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  Those ratings mean nothing, the underlying #'s haven't changed.

yea i agree.
but one player never will turn around a team quick.
also i consider two maybe three players of the sonics as already good maybe very good players. lets wait and see if the 09 class will be better.
And give the rookies some time to develop.
Even the petit class isn´t so strong considering that at the moment only 5 players are more than role players after more than one year.

I disagree... there are not necessarily stars in the real NBA drafts...
In fact, there really has not been enough time to judge the draft classes yet.
Pettit, star, absolutely.
Ferry, star, although he actually declined last year.
Mercer, star, also declined..
Trent Kundla has the potential as well...

And right now, English has been incredible this year, I would call him a star.
Hoiberg is 22, and averaging 12 and 10...  TC or two, he could be very, very good.

You have to give the drafts time to develop before making decisions on them....

BTW, draft wise...
I think Schabinger and Boykins could be very, very good.
Schabinger measures up well with Bailey Snow of the Celtics...  And he has a C rebounding.  I think the only other PG with C rebounding is Kidd (I am too lazy to look) :)

Boykins is two TC's from being an offensive monster...
As is Ivan Lo, who offensively looks like the next Nowitzki..

And Garret Ward, Andy Miles, Patrick Gatling. All should be very good players...

Dwyane Wade?  Ben Gordon?  Heck, look at the impact Carmelo had his rookie year.  



Going Back to '95:
95: Sheed, KG, McDyess (pre-injury)
96: AI, Ray Allen, Jermaine O'neal, Kobe
97: Duncan, Tmac
98: VC, Pierce, Nowitzki, Hughes
99: Brand, Francis, Davis, RIP, Maggette, Artest
00: KMart, Magloire (ew...terrible draft)
01: Gasol, JRich, JJ, Randolph, Dalembert  :lol:
02: Yao, Stoudemire
03: LeBron, Carmelo, Bosh, Wade
04: Emeka, Dwight, Gordon

I can see one....two weak drafts.  But there was, IMO, 1 potential star in the last draft.  I'm not sure if there's one in this class.  If the 3rd one in a row is bad, I'll start to be worried.  The computer built draft classes appear to be very weak (the first draft class came default with the program, so I'm guessing Heavyreign may have done that personally).

Ahh, but some of those players took years to develop into the stars they are now (TMac, Kobe, Hughes, Nowitzki, RIOP, Maggette, Artest, JJ, Zach, Sammy(homer:) ) )... These players took at least 3 years to develop into bonafide seruious players...

Our first draft class has only gone through 2 TC's...
The 2nd, only one...
Last year had players ready to produce immediately while lacking potential.
Next years is not as good in readiness, but the top players have alot more potential, at least by my rankings.

Out of my top 15, only one player is less then B potential, and I do not rate potential as much as others.  8 of them are A potential.

Last year, only 6 were A potential, and 5 were under a B rating...

Doesn't that counter your point to give them time?

You and I both probably have the data to go back and figure out teh average improvement in a guy with "X" potential.  And I'm using tha tto base my decision.  Sure, there will be some that come from nowhere, and some that fall off the face of the earth after looking great.  IMO they'll even out, and this is a bad draft class.  IMO the 2nd bad one in a row.

True, and we have both done it... lol...
This class is worse then last years, no doubt.
And the first class was disgustingly good.

But if the potentials hold true, this class could and will be better then the last.
At least this year, you do not have to decide to take either the player with potential or the player with the skills...  The skilled players this year have potential as well.

IMO it is not a good idea to start "altering" the draft classes.  My guess is that the program has some sort of balancing logarithim that maintains a fairly stable midpoint and standard deviation for the player pool.  

In these 3 "years" I have been involved that seems to be the case.  If you start creating super athletes then the program through training camps, injuries or early retirments will push the overall player rankings back towards a norm.  Either that or we will get to a point where even the 12th man on rosters will have fantastic ratings but never see playing time to determine if the ratings are a true reflection of their productivity.

Part of the puzzle to solve in running a team is to evaluate the talent.  Some GMs give more weight to potential, some look at age, others focus predominatly on current ratings.  If a GM is not willing to take chances with the draft as it is generated then they can always trade away their picks.

Just to compare the top rated players (not taking into account potential) from the 3 draft classes.
2008: Gregory Schabinger   PG   6'3''   186   20   C   B-   B+   B-   C   A
2007: Nicklaus English   PG   6'1''   182   22   C-   B+   A-   B-   D+   A
2006: Mason Mercer   PG   5'7''   186   23   C+   B   B+   A-   D+   C

that leaves Mercer +3 over English, and English and Schabinger technically "even", but if you don't count rebounding, English is +2.

Schabinger, right now, is a guy who isn't good offensively (C B- is not good), or defensively (B-).  Boy, hope that potential is true, or that's a flat out bust.

I think you are giving this program far too much credit.



First, I don't think anybody's talking about super athletes.  But more realistic to nba drafts.  The ROY this year is going to be a 13/8 player.  And he really has no competition.  Look at what guy's like LeBron, Stoudemire, Carmelo, Wade and Bosh are doing in their first, and especially they're 2nd years.

2nd, many leagues use player-created drafts.  In fact, heavyreign has made it easy for people to make draft files.  Most leagues do it to get "real" players into the pool, which I'm not going to do (would rather have fictional).  But IMO right now it's not representative of what the draft should be.

But hey, I really don't care.  My draft picks won't be worth jack for the foreseable future.

... and who cares if the Celtics stink for another 2 or three years ...
 :cry:

 :bounce:  :hail:  :cheers:

Hey, I'm trying to stick up for ya here.



Not gonna happen here.  They're still going to be ficticious players.  If you want real players, join a different league.

Nets, I gotta say, I agree with everything you've said in these posts.

Yao sucks.

Nets, I gotta say, Raptors 2 vs. Nets 0.

actually, i believe it's 3.

 :lol:

I think altering the draft is a terrible idea, personally.

So the proposition is that we have the commissioner arbitrarily decide how many players get changed, which of these players gets changed, and what attributes get changed?  

Even if it was a sensible idea, I don't think it could ever be implemented.  Why even bother?

what, do you think a panel should decide who gets changed?  ;)

before the season begins, I'd look at the draft file.  if the top of the draft is terrible, like these past 2 years, edit a few players to make top prospects.  Actually make players that teams can build around.

Take a look at this past draft.  Sonics got 3 of 4 top picks.  Any of those players you'd build a team around?  Any of those players you'd trade Kobe for, straight up?  AND THEY WERE THE 3 BEST PLAYERS!

Basically, I don't think the draft is doing what it's supposed to do, which is give the terrible teams a chance to get a franchise player (not every year, but at least an all-star).  

Any body in this draft look like a player that can turn a franchise around?

I'd edit the players before the first sim of the year.  It would then be up the entire year, so everybody had ample time to look at it.  Obviously, this year's draft wouldn't be altered, as it's already been posted.

And if it's an issue with me knowing which players have been altered, and knowing their true potentials, I wouldn't draft any of the players I've viewed.  Even if I had the #1 pick.

And if it's an issue of me not keeping my word, well, if I really wanted to I could view everybody's true ratings.  It's just an issue where you have to have trust, if not the league will fall apart.



It's implemented in pretty much every FBB league.  Most commish's build their own draft files (or have someone else build a draft file, and the commish's go over it).

My take is that yes, some players shoud be edited, yes Bods should still be eligable to draft those players, yes we should throw a party for me when I win the titiel

My take is that yes, you should learn how to spell "eligable" and yes, you should get a team that's actually good... :P

As long as you don't trade for the 1st pick right before the draft and then edit a single player for you to draft, then it's cool... :lol:

Yeah, he edited him AFTER he traded for the pick too.

*rolls eyes*

What a douche.

And I have your first...   :D   But I could be interested in Melo...

Well, it looks like my team is finally coming around and is making a big push for the play-offs(6-2 in this sim)...  Everyone has been playing their role, but there still might be a little shake-up in mo-town...

My team sucks without Pierce.  But one thing has come out good from this, Griffin CAN play SF in this league.  He put up great numbers playin the 3 last sim.  I didn't analyse all the indepth stats like opponents FG% on him, but all his averages went up last sim

Griffin at SF?
Wow, that is a big SF :)

An instant superstar almost never comes straight out of the draft, and I don't see anything wrong with the top of either draft.  English is already putting up 13/8, there are a number of double double centers waiting to happen from the draft, and we haven't even given them time to progress.  

We've already speculated that Gatling could become the next AI.  But didn't it take time for AI to become AI too?  And for every AI hasn't there been a Harold Miner?



The last player to turn a franchise around in Year 1 was Tim Duncan, and he joined a core that had won 60 games two years before they drafted him.

If a team wants to rebuild, clear cap space and do something in free agency, or stock up on picks or make a trade.  What's the point in making sure there are Ferries and Petits in every draft?

Besides the points I just made, I think it's unfair to start altering attributes to ensure all stars or superstars for the following reasons:

#1 - How do you determine how many per year?
#2 - How do you determine which ones?
#3 - Wouldn't it be necessary to make an all star at all 5 positions just to be fair?

another point is that a double double as a rookie isn´t bad at all.
we all agree that this league is getting better and better every year and more competitive.
So if you edit rookies to the point that they should be all stars or even franchise player, you will have to start with ratings like mercer.
Mercer should be the exception.
Every TC will give everybody the chance to develop the next superstar.

And Kundla is a good example that in every draft there will be someone spezial.

i don't see a problem with altering the draft files, i see first hand how not every great draft prospect becomes a superstar...Tanner got worse both TC's and you guys talking about Kundla, he only averages 9.3 a game, so basically what I'm saying  is that he can make a player good by altering but dabods can't control what that player does after that, if he makes a guy w/A potential he could be end up getting worse like Tanner or he could become amazing like Petit nobody can control that...and the players in this draft, there are 4 worth taking in the top 10 IMO, there isn't too many good players but that's just me

I'm not talking about an instant contender.  But, IMO, none of these players can turn a team around in future years.  

(and what double double big men?  All of the pf's/c's with any kind of offensive skill have C+ or worse rebounding numbers).

This draft is terrible with guys who can play now.  In the NBA, there are always guys who can step in and help a team (last year with Gordon, Emeka and Howard, the previous year Carmelo, Wade, LeBron and Bosh all made significant contributions.  etc).

Like I said, Shabinger is terrible offenisvely and defensively.  Garrett Ward couldn't find the hole if you put it in front of his nose.  For a PF, George Boykins can't score, defend or rebound.  Chase Russell isn't good at anything, right now a young tim thomas (sim, not real life).  Patrick Gatling might be one of the best, but he's a sg without the defense or height to contribute, and a pg that can't handle the ball or shoot from the outside.  Alvin Zollner can't handle the ball, or score.  Ivan Strong couldn't defend a lamp post.  Anybody excited about Kareem Longley?

And I'm listed the guys who are the most ready to play.  None of them are really ready to make an impact.  There are a lot of people this year going to be banking on potential.  

Maybe some guys value potential a little more than me.  At this point, that's all you're relying on with these scrubs.  But if you ask me, three sim years down the line, there isn't going to be anybody who turned a team around through this draft.  And that's worrisome.

Build a team through free agency?  Good luck with that, with a terrible win rating and very little top prospects entering free agency to begin with.  Sonics got lucky this year, because of a slip-up by my part.  In my experience with these leagues, that's the exception, not the norm.

And there isn't a guy averaging a double-double as a rookie this year.  Closest guy is Harpring (10 pts, 9.4 boards) who was 5th pick and is shooting 40%.



Obviously.

But now we're going 2 years where there isn't anything even remotely resembling a mercer.

Not every player in every draft is a project.  I didn't think people would forget, only one year removed from what LeBron, Carmelo and Wade (and when he got the time, Bosh) and even TJ Ford accomplished walking into the league.

Chase Hoiberg is averaging a double double. 12 and 10 in 30 mpg.
Mercer has been in the league two years...  So how can you say there isn't anything resembling a Mercer yet.
And, personally, I think English is better then Mercer, or will be in a TC or two.
Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, and Bosh is one the best draft classes of the last 10 years.  Using them as a comparison for an average draft is unfair.

Why the draft's have been so point guard heavy is a mystery, one that should be addressed, imo...  3 pg heavy drafts in a row is not right.

But also, how many players in the real draft come into the league as good defenders?  Not many.  Defense is usually a skill that is learned and improved in the NBA...

Plus, we are all spoiled by the defense's we have.  Half of us here would not start a player with a B defense (guilty right here), even though every NBA team but the Pistons has a below average defender somewhere in their lineup.

Oh, and Kundla averaging only 9.3 points....  he is a non-option, but if his A potential holds true, he could be the next McGrady or Kobe.

I still agree with the Nets.

The teams that are at the head of the lottery are going to stay there without trades, because the players coming in via the draft just aren't good enough.

You're right.  I loaded up the old save I had on my laptop which was from 2 sims ago.



Talking about impact his rookie year.  That's what made that years draft interesting.  Not necessarily the stars, but you had to make the choice of potential (Griffin) or ready to contribute (Ferry and Mercer).  Mercer you knew was a guy who would come in and contribute, but not improve much.


Not using them as a comparison.  I listed draft classes from the last 10 years.  I simply used them to say that players do come in and have an impact.

This year Okafor averaged 15/11 with nearly 2 blocks/game.  Ben Gordon with 15 pts off the bench.  Yao Ming averaged 13.5/8.5 as a rookie.  Amare 13.5 and 9.  Caron Butler 15.4/4.

The year before that Gasol averged 18/9.  Jason Richardson 15/4.

There are players that are ready to contribute immediately in drafts.  But not in these past 2.

How long does it take to see how good a draft class is...
About three years, typically.
How long has our firts draft class been in the league...
2 years.
The draft is not about instant gratification.  It is a slow rebuilding process.

If, 2 years down the road, the computer generated draft classes have sucked, then maybe the drafts should be altered.  But, imo, not until 2 computer generated classes have come to maturity.  Only then can you tell about a draft class.

If the A potential players in this draft have 100 potential, and not 81, they will be incredible.

I just showed you that there are players who can come in and make an immediate impact.  I can't remember a draft class where noone was able to score 14 ppg (with the exception of maybe that KMart/Mike Miller debacle).  And IMO next year we may not see a 13 ppg scorer either.



At that point it will be too late.  We'll have gone through 4 drafts.  Bad teams will have gotten worse.  And who knows how long people will want to stick with these bad teams.

I think that you should evelauate the drafts a little deeper.  The 2006 draft was 16 attributes better than the 2007 class.  That's taking into account the entire 58 players.  However what made the 2006 draft so memorable was the top 10 players.

Comparing the drafts the top 10 in 2006 was 25 attributes better than the 2007 draft.  But the 2007 class was 7 attributes better in the 11-29 spots.  The 2007 second round was also slightly better than the 2006 class.

2007 might not have had the stars that immediately helped their teams but had better depth and more players that given time should develop.  Also the potential in the 2006 draft had 8 A, 9 B, 5 C, 6 D and 1 F.  For 2007 the breakdown was 12 A, 6 B, 5 C, 4 D, 2 F.

IMO it is too early to judge the success of the players and the drafts.  From my analysis it appears that for the top 20 the 2008 draft will be closer to the 2006 than the 2007 class.  It just doesn't have that 2 or 3 potential superstars that the first draft had.

First, not all players go up when made an option.

Second, none of these defenders are even average.  They're terrible.  English and Dickau are B- defenders.  13 ppg scorers with B- defense are not my idea of good players.

but hey, if nobody wants the drafts, I'll leave them untouched.  But in 3-4 years, I'm sure I'll be saying I told you so.

Well, I'm probably not here long enough to really see the longterm dynamics of developing draft value, but I have a strong opinion, being the primary benefitiary of any changes.

 :evil:  HANDS OFF !

I'll try to explain it in an example from another sim's draft (which a fellow GM told me about). These are the top prospects there:

Andrew Bogut(C)             B  C,  C+ B   B+ B
Marvin Williams(SG/SF)    B  B-  B-  B-  C+ A
Raymond Felton(PG)        B- C+ B+ B-  C   A
Andrea Bargnani(SF/PF)   B- A-  C,  C   B-  A

So after 2 or 3 seasons you have a couple of  A- A B+ A- B  B guys in this league and each year new ones come along. Any leverage is lost since only so many guys can be superstars scoring- and playingwise. You are then left with A- B+ scorers averaging 3.6 ppg (which is a joke !)

I know that it is more fun playing with better people, BUT
- first of all we are doing 2-months seasons anyway, so 3 seasons are just half a year, so its not like you have to wait until your kids are grown up to get a better team

- second I like a gameplay that reflects reality. There are no 3 superstars each year in the NBA. There are good guys (Meka, Ben, Dwight), decent guys (Luol, Smith, Childress) and guys who are some time away (da rest). But none of these are superstar. Not even Wade was after one season !

- third, I like the fact that I'm losing big time. No, i'm not a masochist, but I completely rebuilt a crap team and I don't think a team can be good within half a season. No one player can take a very bad team to high level, probably respectability but not to the top. That takes time and I'm prepared to wait (with the occasional shortcut of course, cause MY daughter grows up pretty fast ...)

So by leaving the gameplay - and draft list - untouched we also keep the balance active. If we switch to a newer version of FBB with a slightly different gameplay (6 divisions, 30 teams, an expansion draft - now would THAT be fun !!!) then the balance will re-establish itself within some time. But doing manual intervention seldom leads to a better environment.

Just my 2 cents  :lol:

Why does everyone think i'm talking about making super duper, hyper, ultra great superstars?

I'm just talking about maybe, maybe actually having some 20/10 (heck, I'd settle for 16/8) big men entering the league at some point.  Maybe even a SF who can defend.

Right now we're getting pg's who can't defend, and outside of English can't shoot.

Well, I guess I just see that in the real NBA draft, the only swingmen in the last draft that were very good defensively are Iggy and Deng.
Actually,, the program seems to have too many of the current players that are good defenders (GRob B, Dirk A) (BTW...heavyreign mentioned this in a thread once, and said you could lower defensive ratings of draftees to even it out.  I would not recommend that either...)

I guess we will just have to wait and see how players develop.  I think think Hinkle may become a shutdown perimeter defender, as may Kundla.  This next draft, with so many of the top players with potential, should be very interesting come training camp.  One or two of the draftees might blow up, and that would eliminate the problem.

This so is damn weird, because Nets and I seem to be the only two people that want to see the draft get top-better.

And I'm the best team, and he's close.

I also think it could use altering in the future, maybe just sim it a couple times until an acceptable one comes up.  As long as the people being altered aren't being made unstoppable.

IMO the ones who have stockpiled young current (or first year draftees) are going to be set for the future.  Older teams, or teams relying on the young draft picks, will be seriously behind the 8 ball.  But I don't see the talent pool being replenished at all, and as the league progresses teams that got the young players now will have a distinct advantage.

Rebuilding isn't supposed to be easy or a one year thing.  

And besides, there are so many overrated NBA players, like Tractor Traylor with B/B+/B+ ratings for offense/defense/rebounding, that can be had every offseason for the MLE.

If anything needs tampering, it's the fact that any 7 foot clown with a C+/B-/B- in offense/defense/rebounding can average almost 10/10/1-2 blocks per game in 27 minutes.  Every team's got at least 2 of these, with mine being Zaza Pachulia and Jamal Sampson for god's sake.

Nor is it.  Look at the Hawks, Knicks and Celtics.  Or the Spurs before that.



When was the last MLE signing to make a significant contribute.

damn.. my team went 4-6

im just kidding

What's this? :screwy:

Yeah, where the hell, and why did you find this one?


btw Speaking of the draft, i'm really dissapointed with Mchale, DrJ and Bird's development so far. Just my 2 cents.

That's the whole thing that you haven't understood from the beginning...these players have real NBA names, attributes based on how Bods rates their rookie seasons, and NO GUARANTEE that they will ever develop into their real life counterparts.

Well, it's not my fault you're modest guy so you're satisfied with a 11/6 guy winning the ROY, but i want more.


Where is the next Yao Ming or Dwight Howard? A new Mcgrady or Pettit? The next Shaq? Ben Wallace or Emeka Okafor? Hoffa? The next Nowitzki? hawn Marion? That's right, nowhere. No wonder we don't have a rivarlies any more.

But nvm, that's just me. I love talents.

you've got to be kidding me.  these drafts have been absolutely stacked.

I wouldn't use the word stacked, but where they better? Sure they were. Definite improvement over ficitional ones we had couple of years ago. But still, as i said, there are numerous players who were supposed to be a diference makers, but i'm pretty dissapointed with them now. DrJ a 10ppg guy in his 3rd year? Mchale didn't improve much since his rookie year, Larry Bird, of all the people, is a total dissapointment as far as i'm concerned. 17ppg in his 4th year? That's a disgrace. The guy is a top 5 of all time. 28/10/6 in his 5th year in real time. I know you'll say this isn't supposed to be a replica or something like that, but if such all time greats like Bird or Erving won't live up to their expectations, then they shouldn't even be in the draft. I find somehow disrespectfull to make guy like Bird a 17ppg player. And it makes the entire rebuilding proces kinda a lame and stupid. We can't see the players, we can't trust their potential, we can't count on their names and achivements in real life, we, pretty much can't do anything besides beliving in luck. And that, is not the case in real NBA IMO.

um....

you can buy potential.

so don't give me that argument.


This is a consistent showing that you still haven't grasped the concept of what I'm doing with the draft.  I've been extremely straightforward with how I'm doing.

BTW, SSBA Bird dropped 24.2/7.6/4 in his 3rd year, which was pretty comparable to his 3rd year in the NBA (22.9/10.9/5.8).  Last year he was certainly a superstar.

Um...yes, i know. But you missed the point. I've been said by numerous GM's (including you) that potential could be deceitful, so in other words we can't trust em. I'm pretty sure Erving's potential was (or still is i don't know) pretty high (considering who he was and the fact he's from Philly), so why does he still sucks in his 4th year?

It also depends on who the GM/coach is (where in the DC he is used, option, pace, focus) and who the other teammates are.  There are too many variables that are different than the NBA because of the human factor...and way too many unknowns due to the random factors of sim(ulating) games.

Bottom line is that there is no way to absolutely duplicate the real players or their achievements.  Just look at Yao.