London Attacks

[RaptorsGM]

Raptors. I already told you i'm tired of your hipocrisy. Don't talk to me and i won't talk to you.

End of conversation.

   

You're right. If you're not willing to talk it out like a man, it is end of conversation.

I really haven't been a hypocrit at all, and I'm not sure where you are getting this from. I've never been a fan of the KingsGM, and I'm pretty sure I've held fast to that.

"Don't talk to me and i won't talk to you." - well, I'm pretty sure things like that shouldn't happen in a sim league, but if that's how you want it, fine by me.

[CelticsGM]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

now I don't want to be the voice of reason here, but isn't that not only getting out of hands but DOESN'T BELONG HERE at all. Last I checked, this is still a Basketball game we all love ...

So bods, just to do us all a favor, please lock this topic right here, as I guess we all agree that the London bombing was a terrible thing and the rest can be discussed in numerous political forums !

[CelticsGM]

and one more thing: since I see Basketball as a thing free of nationality and political borders spanning the whole world I'm a little bit shocked that expressing opinions, even political ones, can get you in danger of getting kicked out of a GAME like SSBA.

There are things most non-US people see vastly different then US citizens because they can look in from the outside and get a different education for that matter - but since the US declaration of independence values freedom of speech (and I'm sure freedom of opinion as well) very high, I don't think it can be a problem being of different opinion at all ...


... at least I hope so.  

[RaptorsGM]

I could lock this thread - but instead I'm going to delete any posts that don't have anything to do with the topic.

And I don't think the Kings was ever in any danger of getting kicked out - those we're his words.

Kings, if you have anything more to say to me, you're welcome to PM me.

[RaptorsGM]

Actually, you know what - forget it. It's not up to me to decide which posts stay and which posts go.

I'll leave that for Bods if he sees fit.

[CelticsGM]

I could lock this thread - but instead I'm going to delete any posts that don't have anything to do with the topic.

And I don't think the Kings was ever in any danger of getting kicked out - those we're his words.

Kings, if you have anything more to say to me, you're welcome to PM me.

thats a fair offer

i have very strong opinions about these discussed things as well but I don't want to ruin something thats working as fine as this SSBA league with getting a political discussion killing any social relationship in here !

[RaptorsGM]

Believe me, I have much different politcal views than Americans. But actually, I share many of the views that Warriors and Nets have shown in this thread. They are my knid of Americans.

Notice how I've stayed out of this political debate all togheter Like you, I know how heated things can get, and I'd rather not get into it.

[CelticsGM]

Believe me, I have much different politcal views than Americans. But actually, I share many of the views that Warriors and Nets have shown in this thread. They are my knid of Americans.

Notice how I've stayed out of this political debate all togheter Like you, I know how heated things can get, and I'd rather not get into it.

And believe ME that I'm aware that there is no such thing as THE AMERICANS. All kind of political opinions are represented there too, and I know that a great percantage of US citizens are not too happy either how things develop in the US and the world.

And despite understanding your (US based) point of view, being european (but actually seeing myself as a "Terranian") I share a lot of views with KingsGM, probably just not at this extreme level and probably too polite sometimes to offend someone ...

... and that's all I'm willing to add to this political discussion here.  


I WANNA PLAY SOME BALL NOW AND DO GREAT TRADES WITH EVERYONE IN HERE  
(btw, is Kiri available?)

[NetsGM]

Bods first of all stop putting words in my mouth. I've never said that terrorism is not a problem

But unlike G8, they're not causing the problems.

And what natural resources, per se, are we exploiting?  Certainly not oil.  I'm so sick of this argument.   Iraq might have been an overzealous attack to get Saddam out of power, but it had nothing to do with oil.  The US hasn't seen a drop of it.  Our solution to fix the oil crisis has been to drain natural wildlife.

And yes, innocent people died. Always innocent people dies. That's how it goes in the war. During Croatia's war for independency one of my friend lost his leg and another was killed by a sniper. And we were 15 at that time. We were just a kids and we were innocent too

There's a difference between innocent people dying during a war, and innocent people being targetted.  That's the difference you're apparently failing to see.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons for war.  And innocent civilians will die because of that.  But there is never justification for innocent civilians to be targeted.  

Al Qaeda are not freedom fighters fighting for world peace.  They're a dispacable organization who have used terroristic tactics for multiple causes.  There's no justification for their actions.  There's no justification for buses or trains to be blown up.  

And they're not just here because of Bush.  There'd be terrorists, probably arguing over different causes, no matter what.  

Yes, they're crazy.

Someone show this man Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King.  3 people who have achieved 10x the change that these assholes have.

[JazzGM-old]

well this is in the off-topic discussion, and basketball is definately an international affair replete with all of our wonderful politics. (take Yao Ming as an example) but there's no excuse for things to get so heated and personal...this is why the world's in the mess that it is in in the first place.

[KingsGM-old]

Bods first of all stop putting words in my mouth. I've never said that terrorism is not a problem

But unlike G8, they're not causing the problems.

And what natural resources, per se, are we exploiting?  Certainly not oil.  I'm so sick of this argument.   Iraq might have been an overzealous attack to get Saddam out of power, but it had nothing to do with oil.  The US hasn't seen a drop of it.  Our solution to fix the oil crisis has been to drain natural wildlife.

And yes, innocent people died. Always innocent people dies. That's how it goes in the war. During Croatia's war for independency one of my friend lost his leg and another was killed by a sniper. And we were 15 at that time. We were just a kids and we were innocent too

There's a difference between innocent people dying during a war, and legitimate people being targetted.  That's the difference you're apparently failing to see.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons for war.  And innocent civilians will die because of that.  But there is never justification for innocent civilians to be targeted.  

Al Qaeda are not freedom fighters fighting for world peace.  They're a dispacable organization who have used terroristic tactics for multiple causes.  There's no justification for their actions.  There's no justification for buses or trains to be blown up.  

And they're not just here because of Bush.  There'd be terrorists, probably arguing over different causes, no matter what.  

Yes, they're crazy.

Someone show this man Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King.  3 people who have achieved 10x the change that these assholes have.

1. About that qoute of mine where i said " they're not causing problems " i was thinking about protests, not terrorists. Read again.

2. US is not interested in oil?        Jesus Christ Almighty...alright, alright, Texas loby with their chief in charge George W. Bush are not interested in oil whatsoever. Haha, man this is joke of the year.

3. Tell me just this. How come the terrorist atacks on Europe comes so often after the election of Bush? Europe rarely had troubles in the past with terorists (I'm not talking about IRA, only muslims state counts here). It's one wierd concidence, don't you think? Do you have any explanation for this?

[NetsGM]

1. About that qoute of mine where i said " they're not causing problems " i was thinking about protests, not terrorists. Read again.

We were talking about terrorists in that thread the entire time.  Protestors were not brought up before you.  We were talking about Riots or Protestors in the post you quoted.  If you're changing the subject, you need to specify that.

US is not interested in oil?

Not what I said at all.  I said that Bush didn't invade Iraq because of oil.  Bush may be stupid, but his advisors aren't.  They know the reaction OPEC would give them if we raided oil.

3. Tell me just this. How come the terrorist atacks on Europe comes so often after the election of Bush? Europe rarely had troubles in the past with terorists (I'm not talking about IRA, only muslims state counts here). It's one wierd concidence, don't you think? Do you have any explanation for this?

Um...there were a slew of terroristic attacks during the 90's.  Maybe you might want to go back and check that.

In fact, 9/11 was organized long before Bush even began running for office.

[KingsGM-old]

I am not talking about US soil. I'm talking about Europe.

We had no troubles with muslim terrorists what so ever. All of terrorist attacks took place in their own states (Baski in Spain, IRA in England and Ireland, Cecenian Army in Russia etc.) Very, very rarely ( i can't even recall it) terorists attacked someone other. Everything was happening within their own states. But now cause of US little adventure in Iraq, we had multiple attacks in the states who stood beside Bush (Spain, England) and on the list are others who also went to Iraq (Italy, Poland i think etc). Sorry i find that strange...

[BullsGM-old]

Someone show this man Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King.  3 people who have achieved 10x the change that these assholes have.

Gandhi did MANY great things for India, but he's a hipocrit.  This coming from someone of immediate Indian decsent.  Thats a whole other topic though, don't want to take this off topic

[NetsGM]

BTW, some of the misunderstandings here might have been due to a communications barrier.  And I'll accept that. But talking about acceptings protests invokes a completely different reaction from me than talking about accepting anarchy and riots.  

Protesting is something I support completely. No matter if I agree with a cause or not, you have a right to protest and a right to have your voices heard (within reason, of course.  I've seen protestors standing in streets,  blocking off entire sections of cities.  I've then seen ambulances unable to carry people in critical need beyond these protestors.  Having a right to protest doesn't give you the right to deny other people their god given rights).  And this is still alive and true in America.  I wouldn't want it any other way.

Anarchy and rioting are completely different.  Targeting of civilians is completely and utterly, unequiovocally wrong.

If you got your terms confused, dictionary.com.  I realize you speak a different language, and I could never begin to converse with you in your native tongue.  But if you're going to talk about a sensitive subject, don't use words that you don't know what meanings they ultimately have.  It's fine to be unsure when we're talking about basketball.  But not when we're talking about the loss of life.

And believe it or not, we do care when people in impoverished nations suffer.  I can't tell you the reactions I saw at Live 8, and the following concert on Sunday.  These people at these concerts were not benefitting in any other way, neither the performers nor the audience.  It was a spectacle, and something I was proud to be a part of.

My family, my great grandmother and grandmother, lived in Hungary during World War II.  We're christian, and were not directly prosecuted, but they saw the suffering caused by tyrants.  After the onset of war, they fled Hungary to come here, and it was not easy.  Borders were blocked, they were essentially smuggled over here.  Not all of them made it.  Innocent civilians, with no money, killed.  My girlfriend of 3 years is Jewish (technically, heh.  She's about as Jewish as I am Catholic, meaning neither of us practice nor particularly strong in faith, just raised in those customs).  She has family in Isreal.  Family killed by terrorists.  She's going over there this winter, and I'm scared out of my mind.  Terrorism has affected me.  Living in impoverished countries has affected me.  And I do care, as do most Americans.

Blanket statements about one nation, ethnicity, region or race never hold true.  Most of what you know about "Americans" stems from the media, their portrayal of our leaders, and our leaders actions.  Not the other 250+ thousand citizens.  Just as I do of foreign nations.  But we know very little.  And a lack of knowing is what leads to fear/separation of people.  Which leads to hatred.  Which breads terrorism.

We're all the f'in same.  And it's a shame nobody notices that.